Leica S system updates

By LR admin | Published: June 14, 2012

The latest updates on the Leica S system:

Starting from October 2012, Leica Camera will gradually introduce five new central shutter (CS) lenses for the S system: Elmarit-S 30 mm f/2.8 ASPH, Summarit-S 35 mm f/2.5 ASPH, Summarit-S 70 mm f/2.5 ASPH, APO-Macro-Summarit-S 120 mm f/2.5 and the APO-Tele-Elmar-S 180 mm f/3.5.

Leica also introduced the Leica Case S (available from June, 2012). The case provides space for following products:

Leica S-Camera Body
Leica Multifunction Handgrip S
Leica Summarit-S 35mm f/2.5 ASPH.
Leica Elmarit-S 30mm f/2.8 ASPH.
Leica Summarit-S 70mm f/2.5 ASPH.
Leica Apo-Macro-Summarit-S 120mm f/2.5
Leica Apo-Elmar-S 180mm f/3.5
Quick Charger S
Professional Battery Charger S
USB-Cable S
Focussing Screens S
2x Battery S
1x Remote Release Cable S

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Matamoros

They need a new S3, not this.
The D800E will EAT the S2 for lunch (see Lloyd Chambers’ comparison). You can buy a body ($3300), a grip ($500), a few top Nikkors (35g, 85G, 70-200 VRII: $6K) a few Zeiss primes (15, 21, 100: $7000) for a total of $17.5k and still have enough cash to send your kid to summer camp, all for less than the now-outmoded S2 and a pair of lenses.

Krazy.
- Nobody Special
  
  Hey!!! The S2 is the greatest MF camera invented!!!!
  
  Well, actually, it’s not. Digital is better than film in most cases for sharpness – especially in the small sensor sizes. I’m a film guy for MF, I like the look of film – years back the small film formats (under 35mm) were awful – now the small digital sensors are really, really, good. Yes, the MF sensors for digital are excellent and terribly expensive, the S2 IS not MF – Leica are you listening???
  
  Upgrade to an S3? When sensor technology is getting better and ultimate sharpness spreads into the smaller than MF formats to acceptable levels of quality. Lots of luck Leica with your ‘Leica Format’.
  - Harold Ellis
    
    as other leica cameras and gear, it is not meant to be used. Just collected or worn as jewelery.
    
    when your kid got x2, and your golf buddy M9, you can only get S2 or M9 monochrome. If you would turn up with hassy, they would laugh at you cause it is not pretty. With S2 you can say you are more sophisticated, with M9 mono, you can say you are old school values guy.
    
    it all have nothing with photography.
    
    on one wedding i had a guy with M6, taking pics like a boss through the day, wearing it with leather strap on his neck. he had no film in it. Never swapped it. Took at least 100 photos in sequence. This is what leica users are.
    - J Shin
      
      > This is what leica users are.
      
      I assume you meant “buyers”? No need to lump us all together.
      
      I’ve taken 200 shots with an empty body. I was testing the new battery I got for the motor drive. I had the remote do it for me, actually, rather than take it to a wedding. Now that I think about it, no better place to show off a Leica than at a wedding, where most people have never even heard of the brand, and think it’s some kind of a knock-off.
      
      When I used to load my own cassettes, I’ve had the film come off the core once, and I think I shot, like, 50 frames. I happened to have a changing bag, so I didn’t lose much.
      
      Or, perhaps there was an M6 Reporter 250 I’ve never heard of? I want it!
      
      Seriously, tho’, if I could afford an S2, including insurance, I would use it all the time. I think a lot of people would.
      - Harold Ellis
        
        if you could afford S2 and still not be smart enough to buy P1 instead, then well, god bless ya.
      - J Shin
        
        Maybe I’m completely obtuse, but I’ve never heard of a P1…
        
        If it’s more expensive than the S2, and has a red dot, then I want it! (Yes, I’m being sarcastic.)
      - Harold Ellis
        
        it is shortcut for phase one
        
        it have a red dot (af assist light), but more importantly have white “one” written on it self, for a reason.
      - J Shin
        
        Ah. OK. Yes, I would prefer the Phase One cameras, although I’m not sure about the optics.
        
        Anyway, the point was not that the S2 is perfect and worth the price, but, whether S2 or Phase One, I would be a “user” if I could afford to be. (Heck, I’d have more time to be out and about, too. )
    - J Shin
      
      I know! It was an M8.2 being “field tested”, disguised as an M6. That’s it.
    - jetelinho
      
      well, when buyers, then def. Man. City ´fans´ too = buying, shopaholism, City-Leica religion???
      
      sorry for OT!!!, but the world sometimes DOES go mad imho / yes, I like to buy sometimes something … BUT SHALL THE GLOBE EXIST REALLY JUST FOR THAT – the very small blue ulcer part of it does, I hope not every Leica holder does too though.
      
      So, for those who have red dot to shoot with – shoot & enjoy ( I mean SHOOT first of all).
      
      again, sorry of being partly OT
      - Yaddayadda
        
        You weren’t so much OT as you were incomprehensible.
    - Ramona
      
      Harold Ellis,
      
      ….I think they know it’s not MF haha. I’m pretty sure it’s supposed to be MF quality. The digital equivalent.
      - Harold Ellis
        
        MF is about freedom and creativity. S2 is a joke with slightly bigger sensor then 135 is.
http://www.istockphoto.com/huntedduck David

I never understood the long-term vision of the S2; it should have not surprised anyone that Nikon/Canon will eventually raise the par on pixel density. The S2 was designed with the purpose of providing a DSLR “feel” while delivering medium-format results. As everyone knows, Nikon now provides such results and is a much more versatile DSLR in every respect (notwithstanding the annoying AF problems of the D800/E which I hope Nikon will eventually fix). I don’t doubt that the Leica S lenses are fantastic lenses, and have not done any personal comparison, but given the price differential, it does not make any sense to acquire a S system at this time . . .

The M-series, on the other hand, is a completely different story. The travel size and weight of the Leica M cameras provide some real advantage for a street/landscape photog over the heavier and bulkier DSLR. Until the D800E came along, my M9 was the go-to camera for landscape work simply because of how light the whole package would be to carry. But given the dynamic range of the D800E, in combination with the 36MP sensor and the higher IOS performance, it is difficult to not to gravitate towards the D800E for even landscape work. Until the M10 comes out this fall and pending what we see, the M-sereis will probably take a back seat as well.
- MoFo
  
  If you think medium-format digital is all about megapixels, try shooting with it. You’ll find that the advantages in image quality go way beyond. The D800 is no more an S2 killer than the D7000 is a D700 killer.
  
  MF>FX>DX>CX, amen.
  - Daryl
    
    Often times it comes down to megapixels for many commenters on these websites, but for a photographer who uses a camera day in and day out there are other qualities and intangibles that make one system more appropriate for their work. The S2 has a beautiful viewfinder, large and bright it has advantages that amateurs will not appreciate nor understand. The menu system of the Leicas is well thought out and easy, not an easy accomplishment these days, just look at the hideous menu system of Nikon and Canon, they deserve credit for being everything to everyone but Leica hits the sweet spot here. It may be true the Nikon D800e might be close in resolution to the S2 but not all pixels are created equal, anyone who has used a Kodak CCD will understand this clearly. The big disadvantage of the S2 is the body price, and maybe more importantly is the unknown of Leica’s commitment to the system, after all they abandoned the R system leaving many devotees waiting patiently or otherwise.
    - Denis
      
      OVF for MF, pathetic…
      The MF must be mirrorless: no need for fast focus, but need for extremely high focus accuracy, something that cannot be achieved with PDAF but with image based focusing algorithms.
      And the sensor size of S2 is too small to be significantly better than 36×24.
      This system is about to be dead from the birth.
  - Jake
    
    Maybe one day there will be an actual MF/LF digital system with actual MF/LF sized sensors that are not scan backs.
    
    Until then……
  - RVB
    
    Well said,finally some common sense here.. the S2 is a fantastic camera with outstanding glass,and much cheaper body than the price of IQback with body.. weather sealed and with great ergonomics and super view finder..the lenses beat the hell out of Nikon’s 1.4G series(the 1.4G’s are good but not as good or C/A free as the S lenses..)and I own a D800e and S2.. The resolution of the D800 might be high but the colour rendition and tonality of the S2,P1 or Hassy’s is superior..
    and keep in mind that Lloyd Chamber’s comparison used a Zeiss 100mm macro,maybe the very best lenses you can put on a Nikon,try finding that quality in Nikon’s lenses,not to mention no AF of CS in the zeiss…
http://www.vintola.fi vintola

Does this case mean there are not coming more lenses, because there is no room for other ones. Or are there coming new cases after every new lens announcement? – vintola -
jimbo by crikey

Wish they made a case like that for M9 gear.

PLEASE Leica.
- Harold Ellis
  
  yea! would make perfect sense for rangefinder / street photography. Maybe on trolleys even.
- Nobody Special
  
  You can buy a case from lets say, Pelican, and cut to fit whatever system you have. Leica probably IS NOT making that case – it is probably made by another company.
  
  There are plenty of hard-case companies out there – just do the obligatory ‘google’ search. Heck, for the money Leica is asking for the S2, they should throw in a case for free or at least sell it for half price.
Peter

As usual.

Go leica haters go!
J Shin

I’m posting way too many comments, and this is completely off the topic, but I just saw an ad for Nikon FM-2n with 50/1.8 for $195. It didn’t sell in 5 seconds? Nobody wants it? So sad…

All these cameras that nobody wants… Just because no one wants film…
- Discontinued
  
  I’ll shoot as much film as you want me to shoot as long as you pay for it and pay for all the scanning, too.
  I still have two F4s and two Hasselblads waiting for such a client. The last client who wanted me to specifically shoot film (he was fed up with getting digitally flooded) turned up three years ago.
Lefse

People in here don’t seem to understand that professionals have other needs than amateur landscape and family photographers.

One of the most compelling reasons to get an S2 is for its superior flash sync speed.
- The S2 delievers a sync speed of up to 1/1000s with the CS leaf lenses.
- The Hassy “only” gives you 1/750s with its Fujinon lenses.
- The D800e is a toy in comparison, with a measly sync speed of 1/250s.

If you want a camera for “super sharpness” and “81 autofocus points” with “integrated HDR feature”; then maybe, just maybe, you should swallow some pride and admit to the fact that you’re not in the market where the real money for professional photography is made.
- Harold Ellis
  
  sorry to break it for you, but S2 is not used by pros outside of sponsored and promoted events.
  And P1 have 1/1600 sync speed.
  D800 sync at 1/320, with speedlights and pocket wizard 1/8000
  - lefse
    
    We get it. You think Leica equipment is overpriced. Fair enough.
    
    But a similar Phase One 645 camera (which I assume you are referring to) will cost you about the same. The smaller Leicaformat, however, comes in a smaller weatherproof package, with undeniably better glass. Horses for courses.
    
    D800 with 1/8000s flash sync? Haha! You know the difference between a dark room and shooting, say, outdoors? Focal plane shutters are horrible for flash sync speeds. Even the cheap Fuji x100 knocks the socks off the D800 in that sense. You have a few decent arguments, so there is no need to be a troll.
    - Nobody Special
      
      Ah, I don’t need flash for landscape work – and I mostly use medium format – film – transparency. Oh, let’s not forget that when the S2 sensor is out of date, etc…., the WHOLE body has to be replaced….at over $22K…that’s a waste of money and waste of a high priced camera to boot.
      
      The S2 is not a player of relevance in the MF market – it’s promoted as a fashion imaging tool – great, good for Leica. Sharpness is more relative than ever with digital – and in many, many more cases than ever before what is needed for acceptable sharpness is becoming increasing better and thus possible with smaller formats.
      
      Oh, look!!! Her eyelashes are SO sharp!!!! More than is needed??? Quite possibly. I’ll buy a D800 and I have Leica glass, but I won’t be duped by the S2 PR campaign.
- Ramona
  
  I agree with Lefse!
Steve

LOL

I used a S2 now for a year together with a D3x without IR-Filter as comparison. What I can say so far: Nikon is not a bad camera (and a fantastic system overall), but doesn’t come even close to the S2. Even if one day Nikon might catch up with the lenses (unlikely) and, whishful thinking, with a reliable AF, the S2 still has the best wiefinder in the world, which is one of the most important factors of a camera.

When you want precision in your work, portability, color rendition, go for the Leica. If you want to change you gear every 2-3 years, go Nikon.

Btw. the S2 was the far better investement till today: My Nikon D3x will have lost about 4000-500 bucks over the last 3 years, but I still can resell my S2 with almost no loss (ok, this will change once the S3 will come out – but who needs a S3 now?)
- Harold Ellis
  
  lol
  
  leica PR manager?
  - Nobody Special
    
    There are professional photographers that use the D800e and they have also used up to 4×5′s and they are quite happy with the D800 performance. The D3x is an older design. You’ll see what the S2 value is when you sell it – by the way – just what is the demand/market for such a beast?
    
    Nikon makes lenses that perform just fine when used against Leica glass, yes, some Leica glass is excellent. Having used many different brands I would have to say that by now, every major brand has glass that can be considered excellent. It used to be I preferred my Leica glass for the color balance, but now with digital post processing (when needed) it is possible to equalize that.
    - Daryl
      
      Nikon glass might be good but it in no way compares to Leica glass, especially these newer S lenses. Nikon designs their lenses around a price point, Leica designs lenses for the absolute best quality possible. Nikon does have some spectacular tele lens designed for quality over price and we see that they are priced like Leica. I agree about post processing but it’s not my preference to manipulate Nikon to look like Leica, I would rather shoot Leica.
      - Harold Ellis
        
        lol, tell it to your self. and tell us that story about how this amazing glass let you win more customers, make 10 times better photos and your customers pay 10 times more moneys.
        
        whatever dude
        
        i will tell you exactly who buys leica: collectors. real pros and real photographers (not gear collectors) are busy shooting and enjoying the shooting
      - Daryl
        
        To paint all users of a brand of camera with one brush is somewhat akin to labeling people by race, it just doesn’t work and it calls into question those that make such statements.
http://Johnloumiles.com John

Typical comments from someone who never used a Leica in their life and what’s to bring people down a rung to get satisfaction. There are thousands and thousands of photographers that shoot with their Leicas religiously myself included. Not to mention the professionals throughtout generations which include multiple Magnum photogs. The D800 is great but so is the S2 which came out over 2 years ago. As with most Leicas it’s about the lenses which cannot be argued in terms of quality. Can you get great quality and spend less? Sure. That doesn’t mean the photographer who chooses to shoot with the S2 is a poser. There are plenty of people that use it to make a living. Whatever camera system you choose…great for you I just hope you get to use it in happiness. Why can’t you say the same to the actual photographers who use Leicas? The truth is there are more of us then the random anecdotes of a guy shooting with no film.
- Mike Moss
  
  Hi John,
  
  There’s a book by Pierre Bourdieu about the sociological aspects associated with photography practitioners. I’d highly recommend reading it as a way of understanding much of the apparently harsh criticism directed against Leica by a majority of commenters on the internet. Many of the subjective values that photographers maintain are based on deeply rooted class distinctions that manifest themselves in thought processes associated with choices in gear, methods of applied technique, and understandings of the role of professionals vs amateurs etc. Expensive gear is inaccessible to most photographers. Anger towards those that are capable of acquiring the gear, or wish to acquire the gear, is often based on an acute awareness of differences related to social status. One of the ways this manifests itself is by the mocking the items as impractical and stupid. “What idiot would use an S2 when a Nikon D-whatever is just as good or better?” The point I’m trying to make is that it’s not possible to have a discussion about expensive items like Leica without digging up all kinds of arbitrarily based muck related to social condition. Many of the “flamers” and “haters” are driven by a defensive pride of their lower and middle classes. Attempts at discussion will usually only provoke greater anger and resentment.
  - Nobody Special
    
    Wow, to both of you – that’s a fascinating concept for a book/article. Yawn. If it only applied to to every photographer and/or person/human.
    
    Gee John, I have been using Leica’s professionally for nearly 40 years, so I don’t know what I’m talking about – thanks for letting me know that. I have other experience with Leica products as well; constructive comments are fine by me, even if they are not %100 in favor of Leica. There is a lot of resentment over Leica’s current direction – some legitimate and some less than that. A large, underlying part of that is the now dead R system in favor of the S2 – maybe you don’t completely understand this, so I’ll give you a hint.
    
    Leica NEVER abandoned any of it’s users until Kaufmann, who had no hands-on business experience, is not, was not a photographer, swung the axe over a huge part of his customer base, just so he could build the S2, a camera no one was asking for. Leica changed forever with that swing. Nasty, pure and simple.
    
    Yes, the optics are fine, and a D800 or many other cameras can compete in various ways, for recording various subjects with Leica. They have lost the humble attitude that had been with the company for years – now they want everyone to believe that offer something special.
    
    I believe that it is hoped by many who ‘blog’ that Leica will get off it’s imagined throne of can-do-no-wrong and use some imagination that more people can use. There is nothing the matter with that. Users are people too, and not all are as you say.
    - http://johnloumiles.com john
      
      Just to be clear Mr. Special, I was not talking to to you. I was talking to Harold but it has now become obvious he is just a troll and it is a waste of breath to say anything to him.
      
      I never said Leica was perfect and I don’t know Kaufman from any other rich dude so I can’t speak for his intentions other then what I read. What I do know is that the M9 has been made during his ownership and has been hugely successful. Was it ever a perfect camera? No. Have some absolutely stunning images been taken with it, and even the M8 for that matter….absolutely.
      
      The only people I see that complain about the S2 and Kaufman are usually:
      A) People who hate Leica, most likely out of jealousy or the “my equipment is better then yours” syndrome.
      
      B) Owners of the R system which if I’m not mistaken you fall under. Your mad because they made the S2 instead of finding a digital home for your R lenses. I’m truly sorry, I wish there was such camera as well but Leica is not a failure because they have yet to make a digital R. There are tons of analog camera systems that died with the dawn of digital so your not alone.
      
      Like I said I’m not defending Kaufman and I know a lot has changed in the last decade but thats just the rule everywhere. Most camera companies back in the day were geared towards the photographers where as today they a e geared towards consumers. How about a little in camera 360 degree panorama anyone? Maybe a nice aquarium mode shot? If anything Leica has stayed more true to itself then most companies.
      
      Your right people can say what they want but lets be honest, most people have no idea what they are talking about when they go the all negative slant.
      - Nobody Special
        
        I am not mad for the fact that I don’t have a DSLR R body for my R lenses. Some of us have supported and used the products faithfully and many cases professionally. We knew the company and saw it changed (or not) buy the various decisions (good or ???) that were made. But truly, many of us have given them many thousands for some very fine product – it was always backed by a sense of sincerety – even if it was frustrating at times.
        
        If any of us that truly care for that ‘traditional sincerety’ were just to walk away and keep our collective ideas shut – then what good would it do??? Give Leica/Kaufmann the idea that everything was/is fine and dandy? In many professional encounters – the last thing that is/was acceptable is to show disrespect to a customer/client, both new and long-term. Leica has turned onto a different path, but was it an enduring turn? There is a new arrogance and time will tell if he/they care.
        
        I’ve said before that I want them to succeed. As to the M – pent-up demand for an M digital made it pretty much of a no-brainer that it would succeed. I’m interested to see what happens at Photokina. Oh, IF I were spend money on an S2, I wouldn’t buy that case….I have used everything from foam-lined water-proof, metal ‘ammo-boxes’ with lens wrapped in Domke wraps’, to high-end camera/system packs – I used to put my 400/6.8 wrapped in ensolite foam – then it in a heavy plastic plumbing tube with screw-ends – bullet proof when needed. It’s not how pretty the case looks, or what name is on it, as long as it works.
      - http://www.ob1ne.wordpress.com o.b.1ne
        
        @john you forgot to add that some people don’t like Leica just because of their pricing. There is no way you can justify the price they are asking for their equipment. It’s all about social status, and nothing to do with ‘if you’re professional you should get the equipment you need’, you still need to make a profit, and paying insane amounts of money for a system that is marginally better doesn’t cut it.
        
        I would love a digital range finder, hopefully a company will soon realize the demand for a reasonably priced RF and put Leica in its place. For now, it’s x100 for me.
        
        and btw to all those ‘photographers’ who say there is something about Leica that they can’t get from a DSLR, I say BS, if you can’t use a DSLR then you have no hope of using a RF, and most of the time when you look at their folio… well let’s just say the ‘photos’ speak for themselves.
      - Daryl
        
        John, well stated.
        
        NS – I was not aware that a company (Leica) made any promises or guarantees to their future product plans, existence of the product, or any other matter when purchasing a product. Sincerity? I have never heard Leica promise this. What I do see is an M camera system that has tremendous potential for it’s imaging qualities, yet allows use of lenses and accessories dating back to the 1940′s and maybe earlier. This is not to be taken lightly, it says a lot about the company both it’s philosophy and it’s technical capabilities.
        
        o.b…. Leica is expensive no doubt. Digital has sent it skyrocketing with body prices and lenses. But let’s look at a few things. An M9 is no more expensive than the equivalent Nikon and Canon offerings when introduced. Used lenses are available at very good prices, they will last a lifetime and what’s really nice is if I sell it after several years my cost of use is near zero. Alternatives are fantastic Zeiss optics and many pro quality Voigtlander offerings, and we are seeing the excellent Summarit line at good used prices.
  - john
    
    Very interesting post Mike and I agree whole heartedly. Do you know the name of the book?
    - http://johnloumiles.com john
      
      I think I found it. Middle Brow Art?
- http://johnloumiles.com john
  
  o.b.1ne – I understand that feeling. I wanted a Leica for 7 years before I was able to afford a used M8 and even that was painful to spend on a 5 year old camera. I always felt a connection to the camera though even when I didn’t have the means to buy one. I never connected with DSLRs because of their style and P&S like the Canon G10 didn’t give me the quality image I was after.
  
  Rangefinder shooting is in its own class and very different then ground glass focusing, not to mention the size and speed of use. So while there is nothing wrong with SLRs and the like I can say for certain my work did not take off until I started using a Leica. The prices can be ridiculously high and I still cannot afford 95% of Leica’s stable but there are deals out there to be had and there are plenty of people like me using the camera system so to hate it just because it’s expensive does not hold much water to me. All you need is an used M3 or M8 and one lens…a 40mm Summicron lets say and thats it, your ready to make magic.
  
  I guess just don’t get hating something because I can’t afford it and others can. Just not the way I want to live my life.
spam

You’re wasting your time, Harold Ellis is trolling on selveral romor sites.
- spam
  
  Should have been a reply to Nobody Special
  - Nobody Special
    
    Hey ‘spam’ – nice sound-bite response. Have you an original thought about Leica??? Do own any? Do you know the company history? Have you ever seen a cross-section of a lens – do you know the difference between ‘elements’ and a ‘group’??? How about a real response or better still, a comment about design, marketing, product use in hand, something interesting…etc.
M. Lim

As both an S2 owner and a recent D800E owner, let me tell the trolls who have no idea what they are talking about :

1. Stop praising D800 over S2, they are different animals and of course used differently. D800 is a revolutionary camera in full frame world and professionals use it to great results. But for assignments I do not want to mess up, I def prefer S2 with the central shutter lens (that the D800 cannot do). S2 is reliable, ever-lasting and does not get into me and my subjects. Also, no lens from Nikon or the manual lens from Zeiss touches the performance of S2 lens: if you base your judgement on one internet blogger who only shoot 1 boring photo on one specific scene and suddenly claim that D800 is somehow better (so he gets more advertising fee when people click to buy D800 from the link on his website), I will laugh at you because you get so easily manipulated. But I forgive you because you cannot afford S2.

2. S2 sensor is out-of-date? You’re kidding me right? The sensor on S2 never fails to amaze me. It gets the job done and it gets it done fast and perfect. I don’t need crazy ISOs, I only need clean base ISO. I don’t need 10fps, I only need a calculated shot. If in the future Leica come up with S3 with 60+ mp I would welcome that, but that doesn’t mean I cannot achieve top results already with S2. Any S lens in the Leica line up is top performer in any conditions, I cannot say the same with Nikon or Canon.

3. No one asked for S2? say that to those pros who hate the size and handling of MF cameras , who can’t take their camera out in the extreme weather because no decent sealing exists, who needs calibration every time they swap a new back or a new lens and who suffers short battery life. You don’t like the idea of S2 that’s fine, but stop talking like Leica should design any product to your (unprofessional) taste.

3. Nobody special, man please have a life. Most posts here on Leica rumors are accompanied by your angry discussion. If Leica has not ditched R series, you won’t see Leica today, period.
- Nobody Special
  
  I have a life, a quite happy one as a matter of fact. I appreciate your opinion, but please don’t get personal – you don’t want to go there.
  
  I have and still will happily discuss what Leica is doing, has failed to do, and promising to do. You want to be a fan-boy? good for you. I happen to use Leicas, and other gear. Yes, the FACT Leica ditched nearly half it’s user base without discussion or apology IS total crap. I still use M, R, and even a couple of their point and shoots, as well as other MF systems, large format and even cell phone ‘cameras’.
  
  That doesn’t mean I can’t object to what they have done the last 5 years. Oh, and while my blood is warming to a slow boil – I’ve been professional for over 30 years mr. a-…ooppsss!! I just got personal….mr’ fanboy. Oh, and while you’re so perfect, why don’t you tell everyone just who it was that went to Leica asking for an S2? Did you call them or write them asking for an S2?
  
  I’ve shot sucessfully in the field with MF that wasn’t sealed – it’s been done for years before the S2 -and since when is high-speed handling necessary for MF? Shooting fashion? That’s mostly done in controlled conditions. Oh, you have no idea what I know of design, if you like the tremendous S2, good for you, I wouldn’t think it would offend you that others have alternate ideas – but hey, it’s your $30K plus invested in your S2, not mine. I can just shoot a LF transparency, you know with a view camera, and have a good time, you have shot with view cameras???
- Daryl
  
  M. Lim
  
  +1 , except the part about forgiveness because of affordability, sorry but that fosters ill feelings and although I disagree with some thoughts posted by others here I appreciate them and value their discussion. Also, except for the part about N.S. , he is articulate and states his case very well, we need more of that on the internet.
  - Nobody Special
    
    I appreciate that. I would like to say that the new owners of Leica want everyone to believe it is the same company that it has been for all the years before. It is not. I spoke of a ‘sincerity’ from Leica over the years that yes, was unspoken in word but shown through trying to keep pricing relatively sane and the customer on-board. They have promised the now seemingly dead ‘R’ solution: and whether or not it bothers me or someone else likes it, does not change the new attitude at Leica. In the years past, there was really never any reason to doubt their ‘sincerity’ to their customers – now there is. If a company asks users to pay a premium, then isn’t it wise to support those user/customer/clients?
    
    While it may seem ridiculous to stand my ground about certain matters of principle concerning a camera company, which is better? Accept (blindly) how a historically customer supporting company (new owners) has changed in attitude and reversed that towards nearly half it’s base, or view the ‘new way’ cautiously? I say ask questions.
J Shin

Things are getting a bit personal here. Could I make some suggestions?

1) Please do not refer to other commenters unless you are referring to a specific comment. (So, “I agree with X’s post here” or “I disagree with X’s post above” is OK. “X is a troll” seems harsh to me, since usually there are glimmers of legitimate points in their posts. “X is an idiot” is probably unnecessary, and an insult to idiots. )

2) If you are being personally attacked, keep your cool or don’t reply. I’m a bit hypocritical here, but how about waiting a day before posting a reply? This is a slow-moving site, anyway, so most of us hang out for a while on each news item. It’s unlikely your reply would be missed just because it is a few hours late.

I know not everyone would follow these suggestions, and most people do already, but if some of us could ratchet up the civility, that would be great. It’s like laundry lint. If almost everybody who does their laundry checks for lint before they run the load, it doesn’t matter if someone “breaks the rule”.

I do not mind heated debates, and I don’t mind “trolling”. Again, as long as there are legitimate points, I can reflect on and examine my own inner workings as a photographer; amateur that is, in the “good” sense of the word as “a lover”, although I have done paid work. Is my appreciation for Leica legit or foolish? Am I a poser or an aficionada? Should I sell everything and switch to Nikon? Am I really a photographer when I am not filling up hard drives at a head-spinning clip? All interesting questions provoked by “trolling” comments.

At the same time, if there are no legitimate points, then what is there to reply to?

I value this community here, as I’ve said before, and I would like all of us to continue with our respective differences respected. Thanks.

P.S. At a tourist trap today, I saw someone conspicuously parading a very large Canon L zoom lens. Judging by the way he was using it, he was a beginner, and was hoping to be noticed. So, Canon owners do it, too. Still, guess what happened! I found myself hoping that someone could notice that I was holding an R3MOT, and that it was loaded with film! It seemed fair, since I notice everyone who goes by holding an NEX. Then, someone actually noticed the film part, and I was so embarrassed by my fleeting thought, given the comment about the wedding by “Harold Ellis” above. So, it turns out, I was no better than the Canon guy in my “poserness”. Mea culpa! Hopefully I have taken some images that will resurrect my creds, and maybe the Canon guy did, too. At least the camera/lens combo is worth only about the same as an NEX-F3 with kit lens.
- Daryl
  
  +1
  
  The postings here and on other forums say more about the poster than they might suspect. As for trolls, they stir the pot, it is up to the intended target or others to choose how they react, it can be positive with good discussion (posts) following.

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