// Some observations and comments for the Leica M10 spy shots I published last week: The camera appears to be larger than the M8/M9. There is an unusual lens attached to the camera. The way the camera is held suggests that there is live view (which has been mentioned before). There seems to be a port [...]"/>

Few observations on the Leica M10 spy shot

By LR admin | Published: July 16, 2012

Some observations and comments for the Leica M10 spy shots I published last week:

  • The camera appears to be larger than the M8/M9.
  • There is an unusual lens attached to the camera.
  • The way the camera is held suggests that there is live view (which has been mentioned before).
  • There seems to be a port under the flash hot shoe - maybe for an external EVF, similar to the Leica X2.
  • The pictures were taken at a place that is linked/related/close to Leica. Those are not random shots on the street. I had to crop the images in order not to reveal the location. I may publish the full images in the future, but they will not reveal more about the camera.

Related posts:

  1. Leica V-Lux 20 samples now online
  2. Leica 35mm Summilux-M f/1.4 ASPH lens listed as new (updated)
  3. Leica links
  4. Leica M10 speculations
  5. The new ELPRO-S 180

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  • http://www.fredfacker.com Fred Facker

    Hmmm, the viewfinder accessory port makes me think the rangefinder is still purely optical/mechanical.

  • Fiatlux

    I too had the impression it was thicker/larger than the M9… Sigh!

  • Nobody Special

    Yes, that would be unlikely to change. It has been mentioned that the ‘port’ below the flash shoe could be for an EVF.

    For Administration – I thought the camera seemed bigger – thicker actually. But it can’t be thicker without compromising the lens-mount flange to focal plane distance which of course would then prohibit the use of legact M glass which would be highly unlikely. Of course, if it has live view and the screen and internals taking up more room, it’s possible that it could mean the sensor is moved forward in a thicker body which would maintain the distance.
    Maybe it’s taller – but it does appear to be a different size – though from that angle it’s really hard to tell and w/o knowing the hand size of the user it’s all more specualting.

    • fjfjjj

      “But it can’t be thicker without compromising the lens-mount flange to focal plane distance.”

      Riiiight…. Because no camera company has ever changed the thickness of their cameras without changing the mount…. uh-huh

    • Marcus

      Of course it can be thicker, it all depends on how far back in the housing you mount the sensor…

  • ditmer

    a silly thought but since it seems taller and is possibly running a new style of lens could it have a larger sensor than 35mm? the camera could crop for m lenses and there would be framelines for all.
    if leica reinvents the m into a makina 67 i wouldnt argue.

  • Ben

    It is also possible that the M10 is not larger but it is a kind op cover so the real form of the upside is not yet visible.
    Walter da Silva who is the cardesigner of Audi made the design sketches for the M9 titanium and the new M9P Hermes. With new cars it is very usual to tease the public with spyshots of partly hidden new cars.
    When you should compare the M10 introduction with with a new Audi of Walter da Silva it would be likely that the M10 design will look like the M9P Hermes but more practicle. For example with a hotshoe the Hermes has not. The M9P Hermes is a kind of connecting model to make the Leica buyers getting used to the design change.
    Perhaps new spyshots will be released in the coming two months till Photokina as with Walter da Silva’s Audis.

    • Mark

      Excellent comment. I agree with your assessment. Most likely the lens has been taped or covered as well. The most recent Leica price list only has one new Leica M lens price but no name beside it. Teaser shots are always good to keep the fans interest for new models.

  • Huggs

    -It also looks like the bottom plate will go away to fit the bigger screen.
    -Plus the directional pad is grey and sits father out near the edge of the camera.
    -It would be interesting to see how they implement focusing with the EVF.

  • Steve H.

    yawn……..nothing new. please wake me up with something new !

  • John B.

    and what about the price tag?
    i suppose $10k or more

  • http://jorgemancin.com jorge mancin

    maybe i´m leaning a little bit to the classic conservative side but, would bigger size is something we really want. i mean, i went from film M s to the M9. when you look at the dimension of the M9 and something like the MP, it´s not that much bigger. i started using the M9 for about six months non stop and one day i picked up the MP and it felt tiny in comparison. i was actually hoping they would get closer to film Ms dimensions. also getting rid of the bottom plate would the death of a very reliable system that has proven leaked proof over time (now it´s digital so no light leaks), but i really do enjoy that system and also would have liked to get rid of the side port for connecting cables. IN MY OPINION. the main things the M9 should improve are of course. high ISO. operating speed of electronics and sure throw in a fancy LCD. but this are all easy and cheap electronic improvements. the mechanical part is the hard to do and one of the reasons why some of us also enjoy using and M. for example. the framing with 28mm is worst the on film Ms. ok, call me crazy. i´m nobody. ask a photographer from magnum whose has been to Haiti a bunch of times. the magnification is less than on Film M. due to the extra thickness. they should introduce magnification options like they did before. but of course, this would mean actual mechanical and precie labor on their part. the 50mm frame lines are awful compare to older models where you had a full rectangle. they should also work on the shutter actuation. it is very nottchy and stepped compared to the smooth operation of older leicas. but again. mechanical things are expensive to design, improve and manufacture with high tolerances. it is cheaper to have two or three guys designing software One time. and then having computer chips mass produced. i would support live view, focus assist, video, 450,000 ISO, 9 FPS. but, after they take care of the things that got them here and have made us use their cameras for over 50 years.

    • Fritz

      Thank you! I thought with all the fanboy enthuiasm about digital Ms on the web, the downgrade these cameras only offer compared to real M-Photography would go unnoticed. I strongly confirm your remarks about the poor shutter actuation, the poor framelines, in particular related to 50mm, the embarrassment of the obese body line to tactile fingers. – To me my M9 simply feels like a fake Leica. In former years one would have called it a “Russian” Leica, later a “Chinese” Leica. Nowadays it is just a “Leica”. – Let’s not forget the slow response and image processing. But from the mere image taking perspective, may I add the whining shutter cocking noise? It brings the M9 photographer into trouble where a film Leica would go completely unnoticed. And last but not least the wonderful red timer-LED on the front which gives a perfect for mark for any good, well, marksman if you happen to use the M9 in a conflict zone at night. And you cannot tape the LED because it is in the viewfinder field, but you can easily mis-switch the camera to selftimer and start the LED to blink. “Shoot here” it signals in Morse-code.

      • Nobody Special

        I agree. I commented on another post that there isn’t nearly the ‘feel’ or tactile quality of the older rangefinder M’s in the digital M’s.

        Leica does not have to make the existing M9 any bigger. BUT, if they want to make an M10 with the fancy gizmos and gadgets that are being hinted or rumored about then it may be very hard for the body not to expand; just give it a sculpted body and have a traditional M as well.

        I would like to have some weather sealing on a fuller-featured M, but either way, I would like to get some of the old Leica ‘feel’ back. But for the money they want for the M9 one should expect as near perfection as can be had.

      • CHD

        Fritz….yes….that red self timer LED is soooo dangerous….because sooo many photojournalists use Leica in war zones. Yeah right. With one or two exceptions anyone shooting in that environment is using a DSLR.

  • M-loser

    I believe that the photos have been horizontally compressed. That would explain why the camera appears to be slightly taller.
    Look carefully at the shutter button in the right hand photo, it is taller too. This wouldn’t make any sense, if not manipulated.

    Adding further bulk to an already bigger-than-film-m body sounds unlikely. If anything, they should be able to get back to the size of the the classic m-chassis – considering that technology moves forwards, not backwards.

    Using the same EVF-system as the X2 makes sense. Cost saving, and it doesn’t mess up the superior rangefinder focusing system. Why else use a Leica? For both prestige and convenience, by a Bentley, not a camera.

  • Alain93

    Perhaps the user have just small hands….

    • Fritz

      Look at the chromed strap rings. The pictures show actual size. This camera IS bulky.

      • Alain93

        It was just humor…. But sure this guy got shorter fingers than me !!

  • Fritz

    These pictures, the example of handling the camera, also reveal why Leica completely and utterly lost touch with the ergonomics of the original (film) Leica M cameras. Someone who holds a Leica like that cannot understand why the M8- and M9-series are mere bricks to hands that are trained to fine tune film-Leicas in creating the best pictures in the world.

    • Nobody Special

      Yes, well said. I wonder though if this is when the new owners who have been removed from knowing those ‘finer’ aspects of Leica use because they’re not photographers can understand. At least in a way that they actually KNOW without having to read about it or ask, or be told.

    • Fagix

      I’m not sure I follow your thought, Fritz.

      You seem to imply that Leica is at fault here, having somewhat downgraded the ergonomics of the digital M (which I never used, but cannot fathom how they would undermine the user experience).
      To me it just seems that the tester is holding the M like a mere point-and-shoot camera. Granted, those pics have likely been taken whilst the camera was being evaluated/gauged.

  • Bryan Campbell

    I dont mind a slightly larger Leica if it means some serious improvements to the M line. Live View is VERY useful despite what people are saying… Consider the lenses you can use effectivly without having to worrying about having the proper frame lines:

    40mm f/2 Summicron C / Rokkor M
    60mm f/1.2 Hexanon
    25mm Zeiss
    85mm Zeiss

    Live View won’t take away from the Rangefinder experience because its completely optional. There are certain circumstances were live view is an excellent choice and if you have a steady hand it’s a good way to nail the focus assuming your subject isn’t moving

    • Huggs

      +9000

    • http://www.istockphoto.com/huntedduck David

      I generally agree but I am also concerned with a switch to CMOS. I find the color/tonality of the CCD sensor in the M9 to be very pleasing (and not quite duplicable using CMOS sensors, even with Photoshop). If Leica is indeed moving to CMOS (as they must, if the LV and video function rumors are true), then I am afraid that is just another step removed from the classic Leica look and feel (the best of whcih is still film, in my opinion). But then again, I am one of those guys who still believes that analog music (i.e., vinyl) sounds a lot smoother and richer than digitally sampled music.

      • Bryan Campbell

        David, I’m also a bit worried about the switch away from CCD. There seems to be something special about the way CCD draws vs. CMOS. Some will say that it’s only the result of using Leica lenses that we are seeing, and while that is a huge part of the result, there is still a major difference to the “look” to a photo shot on a Sony NEX camera with an M adapter and Leica lens vs. Leica lens on a Leica CCD camera.

        I’m willing to take the risk though, I trust Leica will use a CMOS that’s high quality. Worst case scenario we also carry a Leica M8 or M9 with us.

        • Camerageekslayer

          I read from someone who seemed to be knowledgeable that there is no special difference between the two sensors, instead it is the filter used ontop of the sensor and how the image is processed internally that really makes the difference. He used the example of 5-6 yr old DSLRs which all used CCD sensors yet no one holds those cameras in any kind of regard. I don’t know if it’s true but as someone who was also worried about the potential switch it seemed to make sense. We shall see.

  • Sam

    I am intrigued, and saving. Holding off on any new purchases because I’d rather just get one great camera that will last a lifetime and spend money on glass that will out live me.

    • Brian

      M9 it is; nothing lesser than my M7/MP

  • Lance

    The hands look like a woman’s to me, so smaller. Either that or a guy with a nice manicure and slender girl fingers and thumbs. The thumb in the right picture in particular looks female. Just mentioned in regard to hand size.

  • andy

    cant hold a camera that way without autofocus.

  • http://www.simonlipman.co.uk Simon Lipman

    Am i the only one who believes that they should be offering a manual ‘crank’ shutter advance?

    One of the M8/9′s biggest downfalls if the loud, crusty shutter cycle / advance. Old M’s were super quiet. A mere “Pft” and you’d shot. Why not offer an accessory power winder as in the old days – after all ‘M’ should still be for Mechanical, and even though the digital M’s have undeniable got should, they are mere Frankencameras – somewhere in the middle!!

    Leica can surely offer all of the new features – CMOS; LV; Video; etc – but surely not at the expense of what the refined M stands for!! I sure hope not…

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