Leica M10 speculations

After the latest M9/M9-P price reduction and the upcoming Leica event in Cologne, we are definitely getting closer to the Leica M10 announcement. In addition to the first M10 spy shots, I recently received two additional images:

 

 

Here is a mockup on how I think the M10 will look based on the above spy shots - the body will be similar to the M8/M9 Titan without the cut-off edge on the top plate:

I think in the M10 Leica will use the same electronic viewfinder from Olympus that is currently sold as an accessory for the Leica X2. There are some rumors that the M10 will have some kind of a hybrid viewfinder similar to the Fujifilm X100/X-Pro1. Stefan Daniel (Director of Product Management at Leica Camera AG) said this about EVF in an interview last year:

"I think that the quality of the 1.4MP finders is already very good, and sometimes even more accurate than an optical finder, think of white balance or exposure. Over time, as technology is improving, optical finders will get less and less important. The X100 finder is a very nice concept and well executed".

The M10 will most likely have a 24MP CMOS sensor produced by Sony (with built-in live view and video recording capabilities). There were also some rumors that the M10 will have a 24MP CCD sensor from Teledynedalsa (less likelly).

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  • http://www.jeitootle.com Jei

    Makes the MM look Über sexy ;o)

  • Ozbaz

    The Olympus evf is not the most elegant of solutions but it will probably work. I wonder how much money Leica has for R&D compared to the big players. Fuji presumably spent a lot of money developing the xpro1 with its evf/ovf system and new chip. I don’t think Leica can watch them and hence the off the shelf view finder rather then a built for the m10 hybrid solution. I hope I am wrong. Leica won’t let this camera out of the factory unless it produceds great images.even if it has the Olympus evf.

    • J Shin

      Does anyone know the bandwidth on the EVF connection? It may be possible to increase the resolution with the same form factor and same connection.

      • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com genotypewriter

        lol… it’s a physical connector… not a standard. So, they can pretty much make the bandwidth whatever they want.

        • J Shin

          Each physical connection design has a bandwidth limit.

  • Stephen Patterson

    I suppose if the M10 is going to record video it will have to have an internal microphone, adding some sort of hole pattern to the front. Hmmmmmm.

    I hope video is not a feature of the M10.

    • Michael

      Does having video devalue the camera?

      • Leica user

        Yes! It gets closer to a toy.

        I’d rather get great ISO and dynamic range compared to M9, than anything else. Apart of that, the M9 is perfect (maybe except weather sealing, but that’s fixable with a plastic bag).

        Of course, the above are my 2 cents and mho.

      • http://www.satureyes.com Rick

        Not sure why people are so full of hate for video..
        Here’s my thoughts as a pro video shooter:

        If it’s a by-produdct of sensor change – then why not have it? You dont HAVE to use it?

        You purists believe (mostly) the M is the definitive photo journalists tool – so with the times we are in many/most photo journalists are also required and asked to wire video back as well. It’s part and parcel of evolution and the way we’re consuming media.

        Thank you.

        • Leica user

          @Rick

          I’m not a video hater. And I’m by far not a pro. I’m just a guy that loves my M9 and loves taking pictures with it as much, that my D700 and its set of lenses are getting 1 cm of dust on.

          I love my M9’s feel. And I have a kid. A small kid (7yo). So you may say that I have to take fast action pictures :) And still I love the M9 over the D700. It slowly grew on me (had the D700 first). It’s simplicity. It’s build. The way its forcing me to think about my pictures. And I like my D700 as well, but somehow the M9 crawled under my skin. Can’t explain it… almost like a mistress :-D

          My point is that I like my camera as it is. I don’t need more features, even if they come for free. I don’t want more features. All I want is my shutter speed wheel and my shutter button and the aperture and focus rings. No rec button. No rec switch.

          If I want to have a great photo camera that also makes great movies I can get myself a D800, a 5DMkX etc.

          But I just don’t want my M camera changed. All I want is higher image quality (ISO and DR) and an improvement of the “features” it currently has: battery, display etc.

          That’s it!

          Thanks! :)

  • EnPassant

    It’s what I expected except Leica may do as before and put a red Leica dot in front and use a screen without safire glass just so that they later can issue an upgrade with a black dot and safire glass for just $ 1.000 more than the original M10 will cost!

    The screen on the back of the mock-up does however look strange as it haven’t got 3×2 proportions. I think it will be wider. The control dial on the spy photos looks smaller and placed more to the right, which would give space for a wider screen.

  • Noah Itahl

    Leica may have added some features to the viewfinder, considering the redesign of the edge near the viewfinder. It also looks like they may have removed the bottom plate to accommodate a larger screen. The removable bottom plate was a needless design esthetic.

    I’m intrigued by that lens in the spy shots. Will we see a much shorter minimum focusing distance?

  • Xavier

    It might be true for the EVF but I do not see why the back screen has to be bigger, only the resolution has to be improved and quite à lot, to get close to one million pixels…..
    As for the sensor, 18 millions pixels seem right, to me anyway, and I just wanted two things, get great high ISO definition (a usable pix at 10 000 iso) and a weather proof or weather tigh body (call it what you want) to be able to work under any circumstances……
    The rest is just gadgets……. And my M8 are already of great image quality…..

  • Al

    I realize some users are looking forward to a “modernized” Leica M, personally I dont care much about the electronic viewfinder, video capability , etc. My own M-habbit just yearns for a true digital successor to the decades old film M cameras. What about ISO performance and sensors dynamic performance?

    • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com genotypewriter

      “What about ISO performance and sensors dynamic performance?”

      What the heck is “sensors dynamic performance”? :P

  • Kees Toxopeus

    I would like to see the viewfinder of the Sony NEX7 instead of the Olympus EVF.

  • Bryan Campbell

    I am betting there will be a 3 stop improvement over the M9 in ISO noise. Here is why I’m thinking that might be the case:

    – Switching to CMOS is automatically a 1 stop improvement in ISO noise
    – Sony makes incredibly good sensors now, and are kings of the ISO if you look at D800, so there is another 2/3rd of a stop from Sony’s quality /efficiency
    – It’s been 3 years since the M9 and the M9 was basically just a full frame version of a 2006 sensor developed by Kodak that was in the M8. Another 1 & 2/3rd stop improvement in ISO noise.
    – The M10 will probably have ISO 10,000 and perform better than the Monochrom even though this is a color camera the sensor is much more advanced and CMOS, plus they need to give people a reason to pay the $1,000 – $2,000 more it will cost over the Monochrom. M9 is 2 stops below ISO 10,000, but ISO 2,500 wasn’t that usable. So maybe ISO 10,000 will look like ISO 1,250 on the M9 or slightly better if the M10 is a 3 stop improvement in ISO noise over the M9.

    There is realistic because the noise on the M9 is slightly worse than the original Canon 5D, and the 5D2 was a 1 to 1.5 stop improvement over the 5D2 even with the increase in megapixels. The 5D3 had only a very minor change to the sensor technology and it’s a full stop or more better in the ISO than the 5D2. Canon’s sensors are probably inferior to Sony’s at this point, so any 24 megapixels CMOS from Sony should be better than the 23 megapixels CMOS from Canon.

    • M-dude

      It just doesn’t work like that.
      Imaging processing algorithms for the sensor are made in house by Leica.
      The reason that Nikon d800 performs amazing in low light is because of Nikons in-camera-software. The sensor is from Sony, but Nikon beats Sony’s own implementation of it.

      Leica puts micro lenses over its sensor, to make it possible to use wide angle lenses. This reduces sensor sensitivity. Meaning: whatever sensor and/or software Leica puts in there, it’s not going to be able to compete with the big guns when it comes to speed.

      But so what? If one can afford an 8000 dollar camera, surely one can afford the fast glass that makes high ISO-speed an afterthought. High ISO-speed is something you need when using slow zoom lenses. A non-issue for M-users.

      • http://www.furcafe.com furcafe

        No, high ISO speed is something you need when you need high ISO. Fast lenses (of which I have plenty) are not a substitute for high ISO when you need/want increased depth of field, for example.

    • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com genotypewriter

      “- Sony makes incredibly good sensors now, and are kings of the ISO if you look at D800, so there is another 2/3rd of a stop from Sony’s quality /efficiency”

      Sony makes excellent sensors but they’re not definitely not the “kings” by any means. In terms of overall efficiency that matters, the 5D3, D4, D800 are equal and the 1D X is clearly better… with an overall advantage to the Canons because they preserve more detail by not forcing noise reduction on the raw files like the other do. Can’t remember the last time I saw a sharp high ISO image from a Sony/Nikon camera. So, don’t fall for marketing tricks.

      “The 5D3 had only a very minor change to the sensor technology…”

      lol… you must think that because of the megapixel number.

      But I do agree, if the M10 has a state of the art sensor, it’ll be around 3 stops better than the M9. The questions, will Leica put a state of the art sensor in there? And why now? :D

      • http://www.furcafe.com furcafe

        Doesn’t Sony make the sensors for Nikon?

      • Denis

        Epic BS. Thank you.
        Please, don’t write such a crap anymore. You just have no idea what are you talking about.

        BTW, the 1DX sensor equals D4 one in noise characteristics, but losing in everything else: color depth, dynamic range, etc.

        • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com genotypewriter

          If it’s real BS you’d have given facts. The fact you didn’t means your feelings are hurt.

          And like you’d know what DR is…

          • Denis

            Of course I know what the DR is since I was a developer of one RAW processing software. So next time be careful when promoting such a nonsense you did here, you canon fanboy: 5d mk iii worse than others, d800 is slightly worse than d4, which is about equal to 1dx, but has wider DR at all ISOs up to 112000. But personally I found the 36Mp sony sensor being the best: absolutely top IQ at base ISO, almost is good as D4 and 1Dx at others.

      • Michael

        So you don’t know that Canon is famous for applying very heavy noise reduction to their RAW data?

  • http://mikael.siirila.net/ Mikael

    Sad direction for the M. It will turn from camera to gadget.

    • Flo

      that’s the point! i can’t believe that leica will include a video mode in a leica M. who asked for that? a real leica addict just asks for an improved sensor and an improved lcd.

      • Christian

        can’t agree with you more there….

      • Andrew

        Totally agree!

    • Henry

      Very right!
      A vulgar gadget camera. Nobody asks video on a M Leica, we have dslr’s for that, just a top cmos and top lcd, or even NO LCD any more!!

      • TopShelf

        The M series became a gadget when the M8 came out. Technology changes & demands change. If your such a purest shoot with a M6. No lcd lol! I better dust off my light meter. get real.

        I would like a video mode. Just means one less thing to carry around. Who wants to have a Leica & a dslr on them. I don’t like even carrying around my 5D III by itself. It would of been nice to have a video mode on the M9. There were times where I would of used it. Video with leica glass man that would be nice.

        I’m sure if it’s on the M10 Leica will do it with class & it will be topshelf (their germans). It’s no deal breaker if it doesn’t have it but I’m not going to cry about it if does. It just means I can get ride of my 5D III sooner than I thought. (I really hate that thing) My M9 is much sharper than my 5D III & I rarely miss focus with my M9 can’t say that about my auto fucus 5D.

    • Ockie50

      I agree !! Good bye Leica M. The M9 appears to be the last “genuinly unique” digital M. Probably a future classic…..

      • camerageekslayer

        I definitely did not ask for video in the M10 but that doesn’t mean I’m not curious about the quality and the filming options it will offer.

        The poster above is pretty much right when he said once Leica went digital all bets were off. That doesn’t mean the quality isn’t there, because it definitely is, but I think their is a very vivid line between the two eras of M. Holding on to anything too dearly with a digital Leica is pretty much futile. As long as the body stays the same and there is a rangefinder in the viefinder then I’ll keep looking forward rather then backwards.

  • http://colorhumano.carbonmade.com/projects/2932172 Daniel

    The important thing is not The Tool, the important thing is the mind of the photographer

    • atp

      says a guy on a gear rumor website…

  • Sam

    Here are excerpts from a recent interview with Stefan Daniel on the Theme photography website site: http://the.me/interview-with-stefan-daniel-leica-director-product-management-next-target-non-leica-users/

    I was just happy to read Stefan Daniel acknowledge:
    “We know exactly where are the weak points, for example battery life and processing speed. For the next generation we try to strengthen those weak points.”

    AND “…the success of the product comes from the fact that the lenses are ultra small. By adding autofocus, motors and gears and electronics inside the lenses these lenses would either become much slower in speed, or it would become much bigger. There’s a good reason to stay in manual focus because it keeps the whole system as compact as possible. And having full-frame, by the way. Everybody could reduce the size of the lenses by reducing the size of the sensor. The trick is to have a very big sensor and small lenses. And this is only possible right now by having manual focus. That’s the current situation. It may change in the future.”

    Praise the Lord! I was worried that they were going to do something dopey with the M series. They of course should look at video, autofocus etc. but in another model type, not the M. Just try to improve the M – battery performance, image quality, buffer speed. Keep it essentially a simple camera like the film M’s )or other similar rangefinders). Sadly, there’s no chance of Leica “improving” the price of future M’s.

    If folks need autofocus, or want to use long lenses, video, photo effects etc. – no problem, there are a lot of great cameras out there that can do all that well, at a lower price.

    That’s my 2 pfennigen worth as a long time Leica film M user.

    Sam
    (copied from a post I did on rangefinder forum)

    • http://www.zorankulusicneral.com Zockson

      Very good explanation! I’m fully with you!

    • Ozbaz

      In theory autofocus could be achieved with existing m lenses by moving the sensor and not the lens. A camera with motors to move the sensor would a a radical step and I am not sure how small they could make such a camera. Contax used this idea in a film camera with mixed results.

  • grumps

    Ughh!

    The M9 was a nice camera, the M10 although with subtle minor differences looks a whole lot worse!

    Leica will always have its fans, and the icing is in its lenses, not so much the camera itself. I look forward to see how well the sensor performs. I assume it still has a leaf shutter, but now with CMOS, I think it can take a lesson from the Canon 5D Mark III silent shutter, which works great and better than anything on the market, except perhaps the X100 shutter! That said I highly doubt it, perhaps on the M12.

    • Jan

      M9 has a leaf shutter? Since when?

      • camerageeklayer

        Haha well maybe he was talking abut the X1. It’s fine to not know anything about certain cameras, we all have something to learn, but I always get a laugh when the Leica detractors come over hear and spout off inaccuracies just so they can feel better about whatever camera they happened to be shooting with.

  • Rick

    I am looking forward to the EVF and the video possibility. I am not sure why there is this viewpoint that the M should not have modern features. A Leica RF M is: Small and utilizes incredible optics. That is about all that is historically M. So, why not have better ISO and better framing (live view and EVF) when needed. As far as video; you already have video with live view off the CMOS sensor so, Leica had better let its customers write it to a card!

    And, I’d be happy to add an incredible Leica 35mm AF lens to my bag for occasions when I want and need that capability.

    The future of the M appears exciting – can’t wait.

    • brudy

      AF is never going to happen on m-mount lenses. They just won’t. You lose the lens size advantage. If you want AF there are plenty of other options. The point of an M-whatever is the rangefinder focus system and clean, simple operation. Take that away and you’re left with an ordinary mirrorless camera (albeit FF). I write this not even as a Leica owner, but I do love and use other rangefinders (and I’m hoping to get a used M9 when the prices come down).

      Also, without IS video is relatively useless. Look at the fuji’s, for example.

      • Rick

        Without IS video is useless?
        Clearly someone doesn’t know about pro kit. If you’re serious about video then IS isn’t needed or used. If you have ever panned with a lens that has IS you’d realise this. Leica glass is perfect for video. The only issues would be with the physical clicks the aperture makes and also it will be pretty hard to follow focus without some sort of peaking.

        • Joe

          Rick, it´s easy to remove the aperture clicks on the lenses. It will be great to see films made with a noctilux.

    • http://www.gmpphoto.com Heinz

      I fully agree. As someone else mentioned, Leica will always have its fans. However, reading some of the critiques, several points are always in regard to Leica being outdated etc. With other words, there would likely be an increase of interest in the M cameras if they had some of the modern features to offer. As long as the camera maintains the typical Leica M features, everyone that is not looking for anything else can use the camera as usual and ignore anything new. I for one definitely would like the addition of the removable electronic viewfinder. It greatly increases the close-up and telephoto capabilities of the camera without sacrificing any of the “old” features. The same goes for autofocus lenses. Those could be an additional lens line, coupled to the camera via electronic contacts. Thus users again would have a choice to use the camera as usual or take advantage of the additional features. The electronic viewfinder would also offer an answer to all the old Leica R users who for years have been looking for a digital alternative to use their lenses on. These additional features can only help to create new and additional interest in the Leica. Sitting on its laurels, as Leica did by more or less by ignoring digital photography, wasn’t exactly a healthy move. Neither would not adding new features to the camera.

      • Nobody Special

        Perhaps it would be best for Leica to just have an updated new, sculpted M platform that could use M mount lenses, have a bit larger (taller) scupted body, with an IMPROVED finder and larger eye piece, so no external finder would be needed – especially for those of us who use w i d e M lenses, a faster frame rate of 4-6 fps, weather sealing for those of us that take equipment into rough, inclement conditions,,,,for a start. AND still keep/have the ‘traditional M’ platform.

        Also as an R glass user, by now, other quite capable solutions exist for me from C and N for the glass, the rumored external finder seemingly would allow us to use the R glass w/an adapter. If these rumored features are true, really, what do they end up with? A kind of ‘modern’ M camera?

  • http://clintdunn.zenfolio.com Clint Dunn

    Why on earth would Leica choose that ugly silver colour for the dial on the back instead of painting it black to match the rest of the body??? A minor point that obviously has no effect on functionality…but still…..when you pay for Leica you are paying for the craftsmanship and design as much as the image quality.

    • http://leicarumors.com LR admin

      I think this is just a pre-production sample, I cannot believe that they will leave the silver dial on the final version.

  • http://www.jeitootle.com Jei

    The M system is what it is. Change too many things and it’s challenge disappears.

    I have recently been using the M3. No built in light meter. In the past few months I have learnt so much about light and how it falls on a subject. It challenged me to work harder as a photographer. I can now take a reading by guess and I get pretty close to the meter.

    I am not a rich guy. I work hard and save up for my Leica equipment. Yes it’s expensive, but the price disappears when I start use it.

    • Nobody Special

      Congratulations on the using a totally manual camera – even with my auto cameras (D/SLR/MF film) there is a complete and utter educational experience every time a hand-held meter is used – no matter how experienced the photographer. Using cmareas this way is to me the best way to learn and stay in contact with what photography is all about, and what makes it a joy.

  • Nobody Special

    Well, I have to agree with most the comments so far. I’m not really all that interested in the rumored up-grades either. I believe Leica should leave the M as it is – a unique and basically useable (but limited) design with excellent optics.

    Based on what the rumors are that may be coming at Photokina, Leica doesn’t seem willing to stretch the notion or idea of the M mount platform too much. It seems like a no-brainer, but I can’t for the life of me understand why they just don’t have two M body types; the traditional M, and then a modern verson, both of which could use M glass but the more ‘modern’ would be a new adaptable to new tech body/platform.

    The old optical finder is OLD and the traditonal M still suffers from having to use an external finder for the ‘wide lenses’ which for me, using the M as a landscape/field camera, has always been a pain in the arse’. Maybe the rumored external finder will be useable, but it’s STILL an EXTERNAL finder, just leave the traditinal M as it is – traditional. There is a big enough audience for it. I still would be more happy just to see them develop a modern, and sculpted M mount body that yes, would have to be a bit larger (taller) with a larger eye-piece, weather sealed, 4 to 6 fps frame rate, larger controls, for a start.

    I’m no longer holding my breath. it’s the same attitude at Leica that has prevailed for decades – oh well, maybe they’ll keep the M9 available.

    • M-dude

      Maybe you should recognize the fact that Leica is a tiny company.
      Ergo: Developing a new camera system would seriously dig into the bottom line.
      If I recall correctly, the S2 system cost 30 million USD to develop.

      Why would an ultra conservative company take such a risk? The camera you’re describing is already being sold by other manufacturers. And the half-frame M-copy from Canon, EOS M, is on its way out… Just get one, and tape a red Leica dot on it. No one will blame you.

      • Nobody Special

        I didn’t say a new SYSTEM. I said,,,,,

        Maybe it would be best for Leica to take chances on a seperate new upgraded M platform (body) that can still use M lenses and with an adapter, R glass for those that still have it. Instead of spending all the $$$$ they did on the S which, while it is ‘selling’, that is truly a shot in the dark. Talk about taking a HUGE risk and at the expense of a whole customer base – the R users – which the S system will never find in new user numbers.

        Me thinks Leica could do better with a traditional M and a teched-up M, because it doesn’t seem much of a stretch to figure they could satisfy and find people who want to use M glass on teched-up and ‘refreshed’ body, and still invite the traditional M, so yes, a small company, making the easiest decision, could INCREASE M SYSTEM demand.

        • M-dude

          Current demand for the M-system is so hight that Leica cannot keep up.
          They’re building a new factory in Wetzlar; which will hopefully put them á jour.

          Why on earth would they then spend money on a digital M5 – which is what I assume you want? More modern ergonomics, autofocus and weather sealing might very well come in the future. But right now that doesn’t make any sense. They sell more 8000 USD-cameras than they can produce!

          Just get a another brand. They cater to all your needs. Including support for old Leica glass. Leica is and have always been primarily for an upscale market. That will not change, even if they brought in new management. Sorry, but your complaints sound more like someone who believes Bentley should start producing cars that look have the feature set of a BMW.

          • Nobody Special

            M-dude, you’re reading/putting your opinions into my words.

            By the way, the M5 was and is an excellent M camera. I’ve owned a couple as I have other M’s, and I never said I wanted AF either. My english is pretty clear.

            But that’s okay, keep putting your assumptions in others words; oh, what do you know about MY needs? Thought so.

  • http://www.istockphoto.com/huntedduck David

    My guess is of this is indeed a CMOS device with video, EVF, etc., then the M9 will not go away as quickly as the M8 did because there are always the classic M users out there. SO, I suspect that in 2014 there will be a M10-P, which will basically be the M10 without the EVF or video/microphone, and will cost more :)

    • J Shin

      +1 :-)

      Sounds like a great compromise!

      Reminds me of the days when people used to argue that the M should never abandon the cloth shutter, and likewise with auto exposure or TTL flash. And with digital sensor.

  • http://jamesreinkeart.com James Reinke

    What is the thinking behind changing the ISO button on the back ,very convenient location, to a protect button?

  • John Knight

    I have used Leicas for 20 or more years and have M6, M8 and M9, but I look forward to seeing an updated and more modern Leica. But it must maintain, or improve on, the Leica image quality and feel. The introduction of live view and video, if well implemented, would be nothing but a good thing. You do not have to use them if you don’t want to. It is true, i could use another camera for these features and i have a D4, but if i want to use a discrete and tough M camera for this then that is great too: so long as the Leica quality and feel remains. Such changes also open up a whole load of possibilities in lenses for Leica to capitalise on, and an increased range of shooting possibilities for the Leica shooter. Importantly too, there are far too many Leica owners who have had to give up using their cameras because of deteriorating vision, and I hope these may gain a longer enjoyment of their lenses with the introduction of such a camera. Decent weather proofing, a very much better screen and serious improvements in ISO performance, buffer and battery life need to be addressed as mentioned above. It is great that the M9 has been such a successful camera for Leica, it takes brilliant pictures. Hopefully it is onward and upward for Leica, and I shall seriously be considering the M10. I cant wait for its announcement and to see the confirmed specs and images.

    • Nobody Special

      That all sounds good. Except – to make the rumored M10 weather sealed would take a bit of extra and costly (if even possible) engineering. The inside of the M is a cramped world designed with available tech in mind.

      It’s why I keep saying just keep the traditional M alive as in the M9, and recreate a modern M. In short, (not that they care) I would just say to Leica, ‘quit screwing around, just have both’.

  • LT

    I welcome an external electronic viewfinder that can replace all old viewfinders when needed. Of course, to satisfy purists, it’s better made in retro style.
    Electronic components will be obsolete very fast. Maybe another 5 – 10 years Leica can’t service M8 or M9 due to the parts problem. Unlike film camera, the more electronic parts involved, the worst the situation it will be in the future. To have a digital thingy and wish it will last forever is just unrealistic.

    • Yep

      That’s the enigma of the M digital camera for some. A solid built camera meant to last a lifetime. Yet, it’s digital components are considered obsolete.

    • Stephen Patterson

      In 20 years my TV, my mobile phone and my computer will all be long retired to the scrap heap, but I have no doubt that my M9 will still be producing amazing full frame images.

      There is absolutely no reason why Leica will not be able to repair both the M8 and M9 for years and years to come. Truesense, the supplier of the sensors, is a strong and well financed company that continues to produce sensors for both M8 repairs, new M9s and M9-Ps and the new M Monochrom, and will do so for years to come. Even if a new M10 uses a sensor from another manufacturer the purchasing department at Leica will continue to place orders for KAF10500 and KAF18500 sensors.

      If at some point in the future Truesense decides to discontinue production of one of the older models then Leica will negotiate with them for an “end of life” buy, which would stock their shelves with enough inventory to support repairs for decades.

      Just because a device uses electronics does not mean it will not outlive all of us.

      • LT

        Well,…… only time can tell then …………..

  • http://www.satureyes.com Rick

    IF the ISO is improved I will trade in my 5 Canon lenses, 1DMKIV and possibly my 5DII and get this. I already have an M9 and 3 lenses .. which will become backup and I will be fully ‘M’.

    Video using M glass would be sensational.. why is everyone so dismissive.. the only issue would be the aperture ‘clicks’ so it would be difficult to expose during recording without audible clicks. .

    I would like:
    Focus peaking
    Audio in/out (for mic and monitoring)
    Zebras
    HDMI out (for connection to portable LCD field monitor)

    • http://www.satureyes.com Rick

      I meant my M9 would be backup not the lenses…

    • http://genotypewritings.blogspot.com genotypewriter

      Agree… a FF non-DSLR (mirrorless) with a decent sensor will reduce the need for a DSLR for many shooting scenarios. Live view will be crucial for accurate framing, especially at close distances and DSLRs do this much better than RFs because of the OVF and live view.

      But in my opinion, the biggest challenge for Leica will be capturing higher quality images with existing lenses. The M9 is a disaster in this sense because of all the ugly artifacts, etc. To make a long story short, if Vivitar or Samyang made DSLR lenses that performed the way some of the expensive Leica Summiluxes, etc. do, they won’t be able to sell them for even for half the price of regular Samyangs and Vivitars.

  • D. Witt

    The purist fail to see this is about improving the rangefinder genre. Live View and video recording are not gimmicks. Some of the comments sound like they’re from tired, grumpy, old men suffering from an imagination deficiency.

    Truth is the M digital is over 10 years behind. There should have been a digital version in ’99-2000. Now Leica is playing “catch up” and it’s a little too fast for some.

    • Leos

      Witt, your “10 years behind” statement says it all. Guess what people like you said about the M rangefinder 30 years ago ? You got it. Rangefinder isnt for you. Sony will soon build what you really lust for.

      • D. Witt

        Check out Leica’s digital history. When they were dabbling with the S and compact cams, other manufacturers were putting digital sensors in their flagship cameras. I know, truth hurts but Leica’s doing well, right?

  • Ben

    The pictures are preproduction model pictures. The new M10 will look more like the M9P Hermes edition with the specs mentioned grosso modo above.
    It will be more of a revolution as a evolution to the form factor of the M9.

  • Oscar Stahle

    I don’t see a M10 coming at Photokina!!! I think the leaked images is a “smoke screen”. The M9 is the almost perfect digital M and will be upgraded one final time to M9.2 with a better screen resolution, battery capacity and noise level at higher ISO. There will not be a double-digit M! Instead there will be a Leica Q presented at Photokina. This will be a camera which will borrow design features from both the M and the R (DSLR). It will be considerably lighter than the M9 but bigger and heaftier than the X2, hardly pocketable! It will feature a Japanese CMOS sensor and have life view, video and all this. But no optival viewfinder, just an EVF. It will be able to use both Leica M and R lenses, using an R adapter. Price range mid between X2 and M9. It will be interesting to see if I am correct…..

    • Leos

      Oscar I think you will be right. They would never have released the MM trapped in the “old” body just before announcing its successor, it wouldnt make sense in a marketing scheme, even less in a production scheme. Also, they would not announce a new M together with a new system (that we know is comming).
      The M is a small niche camera that gathers interest from a vocal audience of “gadget” or “mirrorless” fans because it till this day is the only 35mm full frame sensor camera that these people lust after, but seldom buy. This will soon change with a cheap full frame Sony at which point the gadget people will loose all interest in the expensive Leica M.
      I wish the best of luck to Leica with their new system, I am sure it will be excellent. I will keep saving for the S2 to replace my bloated japanese DSLRs and meanwhile enjoy the worlds best digital camera, which could never be anything but a Leica M.

      • One More Thought

        The release of the Leica MM has nothing to do with the new Leica M10…the MM is a purist camera…people buying it won’t be buying it to have the latest Leica body or sensor…it will be a bit of nostalgia…maybe even better to its buyers that it will have an older body style.

        In short, Leica buyers will snap up the M10, along with the Leica MM. That’s the advantage of being Leica…you have a very small but very lucrative niche.

        • Leos

          I dont agree. At the end of the day they would have to maintain two manufacturing lines to build both the M9-based MM and new M10. That would be one hell of a bad business decission just to be able to announce a few months sooner (even worse, considering that the MM is a low volume product).

          • Joe

            They still make film M cameras so who’s to say they can’t make two different style digital M cameras, especially if the M10 is going to alienate many of it’s traditionalist customers who don’t want video, evf, live view, etc.?

  • J Shin

    If M10 is going to have video and be taken seriously for it, it must have an external microphone connection.

    And I wonder if there will be a “rangefinder patch” in the EVF, i.e., a secondary sensor in the rangefinder window. Oooohhhh…

  • John

    So is a Leica smaller system camera out of the question at this point (for Photokina)?
    Remember this post?
    http://leicarumors.com/2010/05/05/rumor-leica-evil-camera-for-photokina.aspx/

  • Jeff

    Oh dear god! I am glad I got my Leica M9-P b4 the M10 will be announced. I sold an entire Nikon DSLR (D4, D800, D7000, D3s, lenses, etc.) system to switch to Leica. I hate the word “purist” because that is disingenuous, but I will say I was looking for something less technology driven and focused more on the joy of making pictures.

    Now, the M10 will be no different than what I sold, in a Leica package. I like the crappy Leica M9 Kodak CCD sensor and the images it produces. I like the bad LCD b/c I can’t “chimp.” So when I die, bury me with my Leica MP and M9-P, along with the 35mm “cron” and 50mm “lux.” I hope these predictions for the M10 are untrue, and the Leica M remains a Lecia M.

  • Dennis

    Am satisfied with my M9 and will stay put.. No more M for me.

  • Huggs

    Hey, Admin! I checked something out from another site about a Leica ME. What gives?

    • http://leicarumors.com LR admin

      I think this is BS. This may be the Leica mirrorless camera, but I seriously doubt it will be a mini M9. The name ME also doesn’t sound like something Leica will do. I also have an issue with the site that started that rumor – they are just recycling news, never had any reliable info on the past. They spam forums and blogs to attract traffic.

  • http://ventspleen.com Benjy

    Ahoy all,

    It always cracks me up reading these comments. The bottom line is that the M9 is an awesome camera and I have made 4′ wide prints that are stunning. I really can’t see the need for a bigger sensor, all that will do is make the files bigger and slow everything down.

    If I was Leica I would go the other way completely. I would try to make the M10 smaller and more like the M6 in size, not bigger. I couldn’t care less about the screen either, you can remove it for all I care. I’d have a wind on lever and get rid of the noisy shutter arming motor and make the whole camera quieter in the process.

    If they could reduce ISO noise a bit that would be helpful but good photographs need light so I’m not really bothered if I can’t take pics at night.

    Live view. Oh dear. Video. Oh dear. What makes the M an M for me is purism, getting rid of unnecessary features that detract from actually taking pictures. KISS.

    It seems to me that most high end cameras these days regardless of who makes them are all capable of taking great photos. I really feel that we have reached the point of diminishing returns. Leica would be far better to refine the M9 and simplify it, not follow the other manufacturers by adding a load of stuff that no one really needs.

    But as we all know Leica are a quirky company and will always go their own particular way. I am grateful that they produced the M9. I have had mine three years now. It was a great camera when it came out. It will always be a great camera capable of taking great photos. If the rumours are true about the M10 then I confess to being rather disappointed and I had hoped for something a bit more special to commemorate their 100 years. Maybe we’ll all be surprised…

    Cheers

  • PalauBlue

    By all means throw in video, evf/ovf, autofocus, microphone, live view. It will only mean my M9-P gain value over time.

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