Leica M10 additional information

Leica-M10-logo
Some additional information on the Leica M10 camera:

  • The camera looks very much like the film Leica MP. It appears to be made of black chrome and it is very slim compared to previous digital M models.
  • There are no openings for a microphone or a speaker.
  • The dial for the ISO on the top plate has the settings A - M and then goes from 100 to 6,400.
  • The camera on switch has only one setting and it’s marked with a dot. No S - C options (for single/continuous shooting).
  • Next to the display on the left are only 3 buttons: LV, Play and Menu as well as 2 LEDs (this is probably done to fit the larger LCD screen).
  • Update: there is also a setting dial as well as direction pad on the back.
  • The M10 does not have video recording, but it does have Live View.
  • The flash shoe has the same EVF connector as the TL - previous rumors indicated that the M10 will use the same EVF from the TL:

leica-visoflex-typ-020-18767
Follow also the new Leica M10 Facebook group and Leica M10 Facebook page for additional M10 coverage.

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  • kkd

    Sounds exciting. I want the Monochrom version.

  • JFSG

    Hopefully some more leaked photos coming soon 🙂 so is it going to be touch screen, setting over dial or setting over wifi? Maybe I missed something.

  • Mark

    ISO 6400?

    • The camera should be able to do more, they just couldn’t fit all numbers.

      • Bo Dez

        There’s a lot more numbers on the shutter dial though. It may well be a different sensor after all.

        • it´s the same sensor from the q/sl…. but the iso wheel will be much smaller then the shutter dial, so you can´t write 50 000 on it. sorry!

  • eric

    the slimmer model will probably be a hit with street photographers. the film leica mp’s look good.

  • eric

    i wonder if people will eventually refer to this model as the mini-m

  • Old sensor, only 6400 ISO joke?

    • see my other comment – the ISO should go up to 50k

  • Lanc

    Does not sound like much of an upgrade if at all. ASA from 3200 to 6400. Plus a dial. No video and thinner on a thin camera. Feels like an Apple product, less equals more money.

    • I would not say the M 240 was a thin camera. My understanding is that the ISO will go up to 50k just like on the Q and SL.

    • Ric Ricard

      If the performance is better at high ISO and buffer is better and if the overall responsiveness of the camera is better, then it is indeed an upgrade.

    • Charles

      The sensor is not just about selectable ISO range. Most of the high ISO options on most other cameras are unusable.
      More important is the signal-to-noise in the image for a given ISO.
      I am loathe to go above ISO 1200 with the M240, but I expect this camera will perform far better at higher sensitivities.

  • Bo Dez

    Nurse, please note time of death as Friday, December 16, 2016 at 18 hundred hours.

  • Bo Dez

    hang on a hot minute….ISO 6400? What’s going on? The Q has ISO 50,000 so this can’t be that sensor. OK, I may be interested again.

    • leica man

      Probably using a CCD sensor.

      • RRDiaz

        Oh, you had me at CCD! 🙂

        • leica man

          It would be interesting if they went with a 24mp CCD.
          I don’t think they will, but would be cool.

          • no, the sensor should be the same as in the Q/SL

      • John Görten

        No CCD. With Liveview it must be CMOS.

        • MdB

          That’s not entirely true, plenty of CCDs with live view.

    • I think that in A mode the iso can go up to 50.000. They just can’t carve 12800, 25600 and 50000 on the wheel.. On the Q I set the limit at 3200 for payed reportage, 12800 for personal fun.

      • Ric Ricard

        Perhaps the higher ISO settings are done via menu setting, rather than dial setting.

    • MdB

      That’s probably what the M and A modes are for.

    • Gv

      I don’t see the need for such hi ISO’s. what are we photographing? Tell me, is the image as good as ISO 100 image? I don’t think so. I bought Leica for the fast and awesome glass, if I want to shoot in the dark, I would get a Nikon D500 and with the extra money take my wife on a Caribbean vacation

      • Bo Dez

        I agree that’s why I will stick with my M9, the last M worth buying.

        • Gv

          at the end of the day, it’s the image produced that counts. M9 produces stunning images. if you have no need for super high ISO speeds stick with it.

  • zekethewolf

    Features like extreme ISO capacity, touch screen and video are not top priorities for Leica M buyers. I think people making comments on this site should now that. There are lots of other cameras that are better for video. I shoot video with Leica lenses and adapters and I can’t see why I should use my M cameras for that. The M10 will have ISO capacity beyond 6400 and together with Summicron and Summilux lenses this will be enought for low light photography. If you don’t believe that, well buy a Nikon D5 instead.

    • MdB

      While I’m really interested in updating my M-E to a M10, video IS a big consideration for me. Sure there are ‘better’ video cameras, but if I’m spending $10,000 AUD on this thing, having decent video would certainly make it easier to swallow. Now it is harder to justify because it means spending some $4k extra to get a body that can do similar video to what the M10 ‘should’ be capable of. As far as whether these aren’t ‘designed’ for video, most cameras aren’t, they are a sensor in a box with a Mount and some connectivity.

      I understand that most Leica shooters won’t care, but I do, it does make a difference. Heck, Leica don’t give me any video recording, just give me a clean output, that’s all it needs. At least it has Live View, so maybe, just maybe, this is possible.

      • zekethewolf

        If you have en M-E, why didn’t you upgrade to the M240 if video is so important? You can still do it since I’m sure that serveral M24X models will be sold in parallell to the new M10 (as long as you don’t want 4K). But, the M model wasn never intended to be a video camera. Leica now has the SL with much better video possibillities (4K included). You see, you can’t have it all. For a small company like Leica it’s important to focus on making products that appeals to the core users. The making of cameras with features for all is for Canon, Sony and others.

        • MdB

          There is no reason for this other than that they can. So you want a M and video? Yeah that’ll be a SL on top of that M, Kerr-Ching!

          I’m considering a M 240 at the moment, but only because they have come down and the M10 will likely be around the $3.5-4K more expensive when it lands compared to what a 240 goes for at the moment.

          I didn’t look before because the 240’s video sucks, but the SL’s sensor is quite capable in this regard. In reality they are stuffing the guts of the SL into a M body, video ‘could’ have been an option, decent video even and that would have definitely made it an easy purchase.

          It’s not complicated, like I say even an output out via HDMI (even through an overpriced multi-interface grip, ie not on the body) would be sufficient. Want to make the menus simpler? Don’t have them when the grip isn’t attached.

          • zekethewolf

            Well MdB, you are, like many others, reaching for the moon. Of course, you know much more about product development and market demands than not just Leica, but propably all camera manufacturers. Welcome the the real world! In this world you have to stick with the available products. I have worked with video for many years, I also have wishes. More important though, I use other cameras for video productions and enyoy my Leica M for still photography.

          • MdB

            No, but I certainly know more about product development than the average forum dweller. That’s lovely for you, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it. Me, I’m disappointed. But I’m glad you could tell me why I shouldn’t be, how very helpful.

          • zekethewolf

            Well, if you really was expecting an M camera with good video features I’m not surprised that you are disapointed. If you are looking for video features i suggest that you moive to another platform. Or that you buy one more camera. And note: A camera with video capacity much better than you ever will get from a M camera doesn’t cost 4K dollars.

          • MdB

            *sigh* and this is the problem. Thanks a lot for your wonderful ‘advice’…

            There is nothing inherent with a M-Mount camera that doesn’t mean it can’t do video, none at all. Apart from morons who think that it ‘shouldn’t’. Thank you for contributing to that myth. Moron.

          • Les

            I disagree with that. There are things inherent with the M that discourage video.

            Size is one. As we saw with the M240, every extra millimetre and gram is highly controversial among some Leica customers (or pretend customers).

            Quality is another. The M can’t have a poorly-implemented feature, which means it would need to have video output that’s at least as good as the SL.

            Self-containment is also important. Nobody will buy an M to do video, and then also buy a cage, and attach an external recorder, and an external power supply. That’s what people do with the Sony A7S II, for instance. It’s the high-quality video camera that’s closest in size to the M, but you can’t use it seriously without a ton of add-ons: internal SD recording is too compressed for prime time, the internal battery is too limited, and you can’t conveniently attach accessories (esp. microphones) to the body.

            Leica already offers a camera that addresses all of these limitations: the SL.

          • MdB

            Yes the SL, the A7S… and the M. What’s the difference? One has a rangefinder and the other two have EVFs, that is the sum total of it. Oh and one is perceived to be ‘classic’ and the others ‘modern’, ‘modern’ features such as video only go on ‘modern’ cameras, right?

            If the video was good, I would definitely do all of those things, production cameras also require lots of external components, like the Arri we use, or the REDs others use, my A7R II or my blackmagic, crappy 5D’s or whatever. They are sensors in boxes. If you want a run and gun camera none of these are particularly well suited. None of those are really ready to shoot out of the box, not one.

          • Les

            MdB,

            The difference is that the compromises needed to make the M into a video camera will make it into a worse M.
            It would need better sensor cooling, which means a thicker body. Lots of connection options, which means more access holes (or a grip like the GH4 and M240). More menu options, which means more buttons. More battery life, which also adds bulk.

            I think Leica got a lot of negative feedback when they did this on the 240, and it still wasn’t much of a video platform (haven’t seen anything shot on it that wasn’t a short or a promotional piece). They know their market, and they are probably justified in thinking that the M should remain a pure stills camera. People love it because it is simple and light.

            I don’t think you need to convince “the people” here that a serious video M makes sense. You need to convince Leica that there’s a market for it, and that this market is not covered by the SL.

          • MdB

            The SL isn’t ‘good enough’ to stand on it’s own purely as a video camera, it is a stills camera with some basic video benefits (that come with live view CMOS sensors, this M10 still has live view remember).

            Sorry but the rest is absolute bunk. The SL isn’t thicker than other M’s. Sony manage to make them smaller still, Fuji etc. The encoding is actually what causes issues and battery heat up within the body, but neither these would preclude an M with SL sensor doing an APS-C crop in 4K going out a HDMI output on an external grip would be anything particularly taxing.

            True they did, because people who can justifiably buy a M probably aren’t that interested anyway. Those who ‘could’ justify one because they do both great stills and video have never had to even consider it, because it has never been an option.

          • zekethewolf

            This is a Leica forum. I have made comments about your opions about Leica products and development. I have not said anythig about your person, how you treat your friends and familiy etc. You are calling me a “moron”. That’s a generic insult and your comment containing this word should have been erased by the administrator of this site. Very bad manners, MdB!

          • MdB

            Oh cry me a river!

          • zekethewolf

            MdB! There are many sites on the Internet where you can call people whatever you want, because they are on the same low level as you. This site is not the right place for you. Good night! I hope you have pleasent dreams.

      • Rotating Beater Shaft

        If you want to shoot video why the hell are you doing it with a Leica of all things? You’re using a vintage roadster as a minivan.

        • abortabort

          The idiocy of this comment is baffling at best.

          • Rotating Beater Shaft

            no u

          • abortabort

            The retard is strong in this-un.

  • RRDiaz

    Wow, a modern day digital black chrome MP. Wish we could get a 0.58x VF with that!

    • kahudson

      And a 0.85x VF!

  • John Görten

    No video, Only 3 buttons, I would not be surprised if this new M will be priced below the M240 and below the SL!

    • kahudson

      Remember the Leica way: Removal of camera elements increases the price.

      • eric

        good one lol

      • Charles

        I’m happy for things to be simpler if that truly makes them better.

    • I updated my post: there is also a setting dial as well as direction pad on the back.

      • RangefindersDelight

        Direction pad? Ok, no touch screen then. Fair enough.

    • DouglasGottlieb

      No chance. Less costs more

  • John Görten

    If the thickness is going to be similar to the MP (33.5mm), it is very likely that the M240 battery type will not be used!

    http://www.apotelyt.com/photo-camera/leica-m

    • DW

      MP and M7 are 38mm thick, Leica M3 is 33.5mm thick.

      • EnPassant

        That is with everything protruding like the ISO dial on the back. The really interesting measure is the width of the baseplate, which on the M7 is 32.3mm (measured on my own M7) and should be the same for most M cameras for film.

        • Charles

          Wow, did you use precision calipers to get those measurements? Thanks.

  • Gavin Pitts

    I wonder if there’ll be a short cut to change white balance, if there’s no ‘set’ button on the back? I think I would have preferred a dedicated WB button, either instead of LV or as well as. Not a deal breaker though by any means.
    I’m just hoping for a buffer that equals my M-P. If so, I’ll have one in black please Leica. Fingers crossed!

    • Ric Ricard

      Buffer needs to, at the very least, match the M-P. However, it needs to be consistent no matter what ISO is set. On the M-P, the frame rate / buffer slows down dramatically once you go above ISO 1,000. That is unacceptable.

      • Gavin Pitts

        You’re absolutely right Ric. I’ve actually just tried it out on my M-P to see the actual effect. I’m getting about 26-27 shots at 200 ISO, dropping to around 15 at ISO 1000 and down to around 12 at 1600 ISO up. I think the big difference though, is that the buffer then clears nearly twice as fast as the M240 and I can take more shots just a few seconds later while the buffer is writing to the card. The M240 I’m having to wait nearly ten seconds before I can take another shot and my M9s nearly twice as long as this. It makes a massive difference in practical shooting and probably why I never hit the buffer wall on the M-P. Like you, I really hope Leica go with at least a 2gig buffer on the M10. There’s still enough of an upgrade path there for a P model I think.

        • Ric Ricard

          The only problem with the M-P is that it never showed up below cost on eBay or elsewhere. No demo models, no used models. It was always full price, and it was about $1,000 more than an M240. The cost was even higher when you figure that you can buy a demo or used M240 for about $4,000. So the M-P, was just too expensive for me to justify purchasing. The really crazy thing, was that they didn’t put the 2 Gig buffer in the subsequent models. Only the M-P and the Monochrom have the 2 Gig buffer.

          Now that Leica has made 2 full frame cameras with excellent buffers (Q and SL), I’m confident the buffer will no longer be an issue on the next M model.

          • DouglasGottlieb

            Agreed. While Leicas are not exactly “high burst rate” use case tools, the extra cache of the P is really nice to have. I’d expect that to be the new baseline and SLii to only grow.

            The SL should be capable of machine gun shooting but still fills quickly (as does a 5D) when shooting Raw. M43 cameras can spoil you if you need crazy spray and can sacrifice a little quality.

            Eventually, Panasonic will have 60 fps Raw capture with 2 hours of continuous shooting. I’m looking forward to that. But will still also shoot my M3! 😉

  • MdB

    Happy to hear it does have live view though, puts this back into consideration, was just before this assuming I’m just waiting for 240 prices to drop once this thing lands.

  • SPshooter

    Nothing special, still a rangefinder that’s all. Unless, it can also auto focus then it surprised every1* other then that continue to sell to rich dudes.

    • Les

      SP, just to be clear, which part or “rich dudes” is the problem? Is it “rich” or “dudes”?

      I’ve never seen the M as a particularly gendered camera (unlike SLRs with huge zooms that some guys use to enhance their self-image), so my guess is “rich.”

      An M isn’t that expensive in the greater scheme of things. You may as well get mad at your neighbour who has a different trim package on their car, or your other neighbour who re-finished their kitchen floor. The way I see it, if photography is what you like to do, then why not?

      • SPshooter

        Happy for you.

  • tjholowaychuk

    Sounds fantastic if this is true! I had the film MP before deciding to go digital with the m240, but the 240 doesn’t even come close to the feel of the film body, exciting.

    • Gv

      I totally disagree, They feel the same add a thumbs up to any digital and they are close as close can get in feel and function. The build quality is the same and the M240 is better dust and weather sealed.

      • tjholowaychuk

        Fair enough, I definitely preferred the MP, I really liked M9 sand-paper style wrap as well and it wasn’t quite as chunky.

  • Neil Gandhi

    Why not a toggling Rangefinder/EVF? They seem to know what they are doing with building great EVFs with the SL and now they want to go back to a TL EVF and make consumers buy yet another accessory? Come on Leica.

  • Gv

    Lack of video is a step back, today it is required in news gathering for multimedia online documentaries and reportages. As for the minor tweaks, thinner body, bigger screen (i only use it for menu and settings selections), viewfinder possibly at 72 (no big deal), the camera should be less in price as features are diminished. The thickness has never been an issue. my original M8 was thicker than my film M’s, I’ve been using one since 2007, so I’m use to it. I’ll be surprised if the new M is 8K

    • Brennan McKissick

      There are better cameras than an M for “multimedia online documentaries and reportages.” Different tools for different jobs.

      • Gv

        Yes there are but the m240 is the right size for recording in situations where a D810 would be too obvious. you can only carry so much gear all day, thats why I bought the M240, the size and weight and its discreteness, otherwise I’d use my Nikons. Ever carry A D4s with a 80-200 f2.8 ED zoom along with a D810 and a 14-24 mm F2.8 ED zoom all day? compare that to the weight of my M240 with a 28mm F2 ASPH Summicron and and a M240 M-P with a APO 90mm F2 Summicron lens. You don’t need rigs for the M240 camera is small and so much easier to manage. It’s not for hi quality movies but excellent for news gathering which is I believe it’s intent. All of leicas competitors offer video, why on earth would take a step back?

        • Brennan McKissick

          Because they aren’t marketing these cameras to journalists lol. The Sony A7 cameras weigh less than the Leicas and do better video and have better sensors.

          • Gv

            Sony’s batteries don’t last at all and the build quality doesn’t come close. the Sony A7 series won’t hold up to the daily grind in journalism. Thats why build quality and simplicity is so important. manual rangefinder focusing has stood the test of time and so has the M series.

  • Brennan McKissick

    I’m so excited for this camera.

  • ZMWT

    If there is no C and S modes, no video too, does it mean camera will have abysmal buffer and shooting speed of a film? Can someone enlighten us, how is this ‘a great digital camera people are expecting’, in any possible way?

  • stevieg

    Maybe the rumour of two different/complimentary lines of M are true?
    M10 for the photo-purist, with no video, S/C mode or “modern” entrapments. In addition, a Typ24x with video and maybe different hybrid viewfinder options etc…?

    • Could be, but I think Leica has abandon the Typ xxx model notation – the last TL did not have Typ reference.

  • JJ

    To me, it must be about the IQ that matters on this model. The M240 is known to be a great camera, but has a poor dynamic range. The Q sensor is nice, but has the banding problem when pushed. So please Leica. Don’t only think in build quality (and Leica logo) this time! For that price we should have the best camera…. Not only a brand and red logo.

    • Charles

      I don’t think that the sensor performance will be much different to the Leica SL.

      • JJ

        ok, lets hope so…

  • Valdo

    Live view on M10?
    I was hoping just on improoved M262 with the new sensor / processor and ISO dial..

    • stevieg

      I suspect that will come later…!

      • Valdo

        Leica is like an old wine, it takes time…

  • DouglasGottlieb

    Gimme a digital CL!

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