Leica M10 camera rumors: the big recap


I have been reporting about the upcoming Leica M10 camera for several months now and you could have missed some of details or leaked pictures (see above). Here is a recap on everything we know so far for the M10:

  • There are no openings for a microphone or a speaker
  • Dedicated ISO wheel/dial on top plate: the dial for the ISO on the top plate has the settings A - M and then goes from 100 to 6,400
  • The camera on switch has only one setting and it’s marked with a dot, there will be no S - C options (for single/continuous shooting)
  • Next to the display on the left are only 3 buttons: LV, Play and Menu as well as 2 LEDs (this is probably done to fit the larger LCD screen), there is also a setting dial as well as direction pad on the back
  • The M10 does not have video recording (no movie button on top), but it does have Live View
  • The flash shoe has the same EVF connector as the TL - previous rumors indicated that the M10 will use the same EVF from the TL
  • LED framelines
  • 0.72x improved (also bigger?) viewfinder (FYI: both the Leica M9 and M 240 have a 0.68x viewfinder)
  • Frame selector
  • Raised M mount to accommodate the rumored thinner body (3.8mm thinner)
  • Update: I was told the M10 will be 38mm thick (or thin) - I assume this includes the raised LCD screen and M mount
  • The model name will be M10, no more “Typ” reference (Leica M10 was recently registered in China)
  • 24MP sensor (the sensor from the Leica SL/Q)
  • Max ISO: 50k (just like the Leica SL and the Leica Q)
  • Slightly bigger LCD screen
  • Same EVF from the TL camera
  • The new M10 should be 3.8mm thinner than the M 240 (should be as thin as analog Leica M camera)
  • Image processing engine MAESTRO II
  • Up to 5 frames per sec
  • Build-in Wi-Fi
  • Improved/simplified menu
  • The Leica M10 will most likely use the same battery (BP-SCL2) as the M Typ 240
  • The official announcement is on January 18th




Follow also the new Leica M10 Facebook group and Leica M10 Facebook page for additional coverage.

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  • Florian

    Is there any proof that it is as thin as an analogue M? Oh man that would be the last camera i need in my life.

    • Exactly, I would hold off and wait for the Leica MxD version 😀

      • abortabort

        Well the M-D based on the 240 isn’t slimmer…

      • Charles

        An M-D10 with optoelectronic rangefinder, and I’m in.
        Probably have to wait 2-3 years for it, though!

        • CHD

          At this rate you’ll be waiting a lot longer then that. The last 4 years got us…..an ISO dial.

          • Charles

            Sure.

    • Ben Woodard

      Over on the l-camera-forums someone took one of the pictures and used the tripod mount hole which is fixed size and can’t change to scale the picture of the bottom. If we know how big the tripod mount is then you can measure the distance to the front of the camera and to the back. It ended up being about 3mm thinner.

      • The report I got was 3.8mm thinner, close enough.

        • 3,8mm is a big change.

        • EnPassant

          But where? Top plate, bottom plate or mount to LCD? I’d be surprised if top or bottom plate was more than 1.8mm thinner. They certainly doesn’t look as thin as on film M cameras.

      • Florian

        3mm thinner from a m240 body would mean that its still thicker than the m9.

  • Brennan McKissick

    I need this in my life.

  • JJ

    “Image processing engine MAESTRO II” ? Isn’t it from 2014? Would say that it must be a maestro III. But lets see.

    • I really really really hope so.

    • Ben Woodard

      The processor in the M doesn’t have to do as much work as in many other cameras. For example to implement DfD AF like they use in the SL to do AF quickly they have to read the sensor many times a second as the focus slews. With the M, so much of the camera is manual that the processor is probably sleeping most of the time. More than likely they kept the Maestro II because they implemented and debugged the processing pipeline for the sensor since they used it on the Q and the SL.
      With an M what limitation of the camera are you going to overcome by using a faster processor?

      • JJ

        I see your point Ben. Let us see when the camera is a reality. I am sure it will be a great Leica. If the smaller size holds, and if the shutter is as quiet or even more quiet than the 262, I will have to have a meeting with my Bank 😉

  • Don

    I want one! One question if anyone has an answer (not a deal breaker I assure you) “bigger LCD” is bigger than which model? M240 LCD?

  • andre_

    The only drawback is the red dot in the front (I have to cover it in my 240…).
    Everything else is going to the right direction. 🙂
    a_

    • They have to be able to sell the M10-P in 2 years without the dot 🙂

      • Charles

        A create a reason for the a la carte product, in which the absence of a red dot costs US$100…

        • I wonder if they will offer a-la-carte for the M10 right away. They should do that and just skip the M10-P version.

          • Charles

            Yes, absolutely agree.

  • stevieg

    No new trapdoor/battery cover. Same removable baseplate design as before.

    • Like the one on Leica Q?

    • abortabort

      The M 240 has a trapdoor no?

  • What…. the reason for no mic hole is because MAYBE this one will be weather seal? Please Leica make it happen lol.
    My Leica Work:
    instagram.com/superbvisual

    • abortabort

      M 240 was weather sealed? Are the lenses though?

      • You’re right 🙁

      • I was confused about that too – the M 240 is, the lenses are not.

        • abortabort

          I guess having sealing on the body is better than nothing.

  • SomeoneNotImportant

    No SL/Q sensor though.

    • Are you sure?

    • Charles

      Care to provide any evidence for your assertion?

    • Chito

      We’ll know soon enough.. I really hope you’re right.

  • Steingrímur Árnason

    Single/continuous shooting is selectable in the menu system.

    • Charles

      Well spotted!

  • Ric Ricard

    Looks like a damn near perfect design to my eyes. Hard to believe we are 15 years into the digital photography age (for the average shooter) and we have only ONE stripped down, simplified digital camera. There’s no reason Nikon or Canon couldn’t have designed a camera like this 5 years ago. Can’t wait to get my hands on the M10.

    • eric

      the ricoh gr camera is pretty stripped down and very minimal. and there have been other simple digital cameras. i agree in terms of full frame, inter-changeable lenses, rangefinder, model there is only one but that is just a small segment of a huge market.

      • Ric Ricard

        Name some stripped down cameras. There are plenty that look stripped down -the Fuji models for instance, but they aren’t stripped down. They have many buttons and many features.

        • eric

          i said the ricoh gr…its completely basic/stripped down/menus are simple etc. lots of talented street photographers use it, including myself. im sure there are others out there that are similar, especially with compact cameras or micro 3/4. i mean it all depends how little you want. if you want a truly basic camera, you might as well shoot film. most famous pro’s still shoot film. i think part of the benefit of shooting digital is having at least some options. i wouldnt want a camera with no options.

          • JJ

            eric, Ricoh GR stripped down? Not to me. A lot of programmable buttons and hundreds of customization possibilities. And if you are shooting manual, you always hit the +- adjustment buttons, and gone is the manual setting you just set up. 🙁 Well I love the GR and the images it produces. But stripped down and easy to use – no.

          • abortabort

            I consider it very stripped down, it has nothing but a series of tools, no gaff or gimmicks. You choose how you want to set it up and use it, sure, but that doesn’t make it ‘complicated’.

          • JJ

            No, but “not complicated” is not the same as “stripped down” 😉

          • Agree, I have a GR it is not stripped down and that’s not a bad thing either. It’s great camera but there is a learning curve to it. once you have all the settings you like it’s set it and forget it.

            However, it’s not a fair comparison to any other camera. GR is very task specific- would you shoot this as your main camera for a wedding? heck no lol. Street? Hell yes, it’s super stealth! Some of my best street photography shots are from the Leica Q, iPhone 7 and GR. Again, all job specifics. You can do street with a DSLR or Leica, but which one will keep you most discreet of them all to get the shot.

          • Ric Ricard

            Wasn’t familiar with the Ricoh GR so I looked it up. While the back does have fewer buttons than some other cameras, the top has a dial offers many shooting modes that would not be immediately understandable without reading a manual. For example, isn’t the Green Camera setting usually a full auto mode? Then how does that differ from P? And how is it that I’ve been a full time photographer for over 15 years now, and I have no idea what the setting for TAV is? I’m guessing it stands for “time / aperture value” but that doesn’t give me a clue as to what that mode does or why it is necessary on a supposedly stripped down camera.

            I’m not saying the Ricoh isn’t a good camera. I’m just saying its not what I would mean when I say stripped down camera.

          • Mistral75

            TAV is from Pentax land. You choose aperture and shutter speed and the camera determines the appropriate sensitivity. Also known as auto ISO in M mode at other manufacturers.

            Green mode is full auto, e.g. you can’t apply EV compensation. In P mode you can and you can also modify the aperture (resp. the shutter speed) chosen by the camera: it will automatically adjust the shutter speed (resp. the aperture) .

          • Ric Ricard

            When you’re writing those several sentences of explanation of the various modes, does this really strike you you as being a stripped down camera?

          • Mistral75

            If I were mean, I would say it strikes me as über-detailed explanations for stripped-down brains 😛

          • abortabort

            Stripped down doesn’t mean basic. It means the controls / settings important to photographers are all that is available. Just because you as a ‘full time photographer for 15 years’ don’t understand the most basic modes on a camera, doesn’t really mean much to me. You aren’t a ‘better’ photographer because you don’t understand how a camera works, just saying.

            And Leica has a TAv mode, or certainly mine does. Sooooo what exactly does that mean for your arguement? It means you know how to use one camera and clearly struggle with the rest.

          • Ric Ricard

            You are misunderstanding me. I didn’t write anything to imply that I was a “better” photographer. I mentioned 15 years as a full time pro for one reason only. Eric said the Ricoh was, “completely basic/stripped down/menus are simple,” and I am trying to point out that there are several things that I cannot understand about the camera. If it were truly “stripped down”, then any working pro should be able to instantly figure out every single part of the camera without consulting a manual.

            I know how to work more than one camera. My current workflow involves the Leica M9, Nikon D810, Nikon D3s and Sony a6000. And even with the knowledge of those cameras, I didn’t know what several of the operating modes on the Ricoh GR were. I’m not saying the Rico is a bad camera or that it is designed poorly. I am merely pointing out that it is not “stripped down”. The only truly stripped down camera I know of is the Leica M9 and possibly the forthcoming Leica M10.

          • abortabort

            I’m not misunderstanding you at all. You are misunderstanding me, as a ‘professional’ you need to be able to understand and work out how to use a tool. It’s like saying ‘oh I couldn’t work out how to use Photoshop immediately, I want something more stripped down, like Microsoft Paint’. Both are ‘tools’ that manipulate pixels in a raster image after all.

            ‘Professionals’ to my mind are people who can pick up any camera and figure them out, not to be spoon fed.

            That’s not to say that I dislike the simplicity of my Leicas, just that I wouldn’t moan about other cameras not being like it, complaining that other cameras that are controlled ‘like’ a Leica but ‘have many menus and features’ as somehow inferior, is lazy nonsense.

            Summary: not knowing what a TAv mode despite being a ‘professional’ makes you ignorant, not the designers as incompetent.

          • Ric Ricard

            It is clear you do not understand what this conversation is about. You may need to go back and read the original post that was being referenced in my original comment. You are making it sound as if I am saying I am incapable of learning to operate a Ricoh GR. That is simply not true. Also I am not saying I want a stripped down camera because I cannot figure out how to operate a more complicated camera. My original statement was that Leica is the only company making a stripped down camera. Eric said the Rico GR was stripped down. I said it wasn’t because it is not instantly understandable.

            If you transported a photographer from 1950 and handed him a Leica M10 (if these pics are correct) he would instantly know what the main controls are. The camera is that simple. If you gave him a Ricoh GR, he would not because it is not a stripped down camera.

            I am not ignorant. The designers are not incompetent. I am not saying all cameras need to be stripped down. I am merely saying, every manufacturer should offer at least ONE stripped down model. Nikon did it in the film days when the FM2 stayed in production even after the F4 and F5 were created. There’s no reason they shouldn’t do something similar today.

          • abortabort

            Sorry Ric but this is just a nonsense arguement. Why does every ‘professional’ photographer think they are electrical and optical engineers, industrial designers, master of ergonomics and haptic design experts?

            Your argument that giving a Leica to a photographer from the 50’s and they will be able to figure out how to operate it vs a Ricoh GR is absolute trash. That doesn’t make it ‘more stripped down’ it means the Leica is ‘more like a camera from the 50’s’ (no argument here on that one) that said photographer might have used. It definitely DOES NOT make the camera more intuitive or ‘instantly understandable’ as you claim. I think you have decided that they are FOR YOU and somehow everyone is you, essentially a photographer from the 50’s.

            Now you give a Millennial a Leica M9 and Ricoh GR, not being a ‘photographer’ of any kind, which do you think they would figure out first? Now you give it to my uncle, who likes taking photos, used a rangefinder in the 60’s and uses a Canon superzoom P&S today, give him the two cameras, I guarantee he will manage to take an in focus photo on the GR long before he can on my M-E. I’ve literally tried it.

            The GR is ‘stripped back’ because it has nothing but useful controls and features for photographers TODAY. It has one of the best thought through user interfaces designed around one handed operation on a camera ever produced.

            You’re welcome to prefer the M9 ‘for you’ but don’t go cr@pping on about stuff you don’t really understand claiming it as a universal truth. Your ‘truth’ is not everyone’s truth.

          • Ric Ricard

            My posting on this forum has been consistent and I’ve made basically one point across my many posts -that camera manufacturers should offer at least one model that is stripped down and has minimal features and minimal controls. I don’t profess to be a “electrical and optical engineers, industrial designers, master of ergonomics and haptic design experts”. I don’t even know what half of those things are.

            I’m just a professional photographer who doesn’t understand why it is possible to buy a complicated lock for my door that runs on wifi and uses an app to open and close OR I can buy a simple lock that opens with a key just like a lock from the 1900’s. I don’t understand why I can buy a Phillips Hue light that can be set to all sorts of different color schemes OR I can buy a simple light bulb that just turns on and off. I could offer other examples, but my point is, when it comes to buying cameras, the ONLY option is to buy a camera with 10+ buttons and all sorts of features. I’m not saying the features shouldn’t exist. The majority of my pro work is shot on a Nikon D810 that has many buttons and many features. I would not change a single thing about the camera.

            But I just don’t understand why Nikon can’t make ONE model that is stripped down and has only a few buttons and a few options. Nikon did it in the film days when they kept the simplified FM2 in production even after they created the more advanced F4 and the even more advanced F5.

            Currently, Leica is the only company that makes stripped down cameras. And it appears, they have made the M10 even more stripped down than the M240. I’m glad for that, and if the camera is designed as the pictures on LR suggests, I will absolutely own an M10 and will use it alongside my more fully featured D810.

          • abortabort

            Sorry Ric, but still not proving your point. Now you claim you just want a camera with less features, less buttons. There are LOTS of cameras like that, go buy one. Again I think you are confusing a mostly manual camera with being ‘stripped down’. Or a camera that YOU personally find easy to use as being ‘stripped down’. How is a Nikon J1 not ‘stripped down’ in your esteem? You point it at what you want to take a picture of and hit the shutter.

            YOU want a certain set of features on a camera and anything else you seem to be largely unnecessary, that’s fine, for YOU. But otherwise your arguement holds no water.

            Comparing cameras to light bulbs, fine, casual lightbulb users who have basic needs of On or off can have that, just like a point and click. Enthusiasts have all sorts of lighting options to add atmosphere and mood and can even tinker with apps etc. Professional gaffers have all sorts of advanced lighting systems, strobists too and many more.

            Point and clicks have existed for a long time and were and are way more ‘stripped down’ than a Leica M.

            You like your M because it is simple and intuitive ‘for you’, that’s great, me too, but everything else is just BS.

            PS – What about the Leica 60 or M-D 262? Are they not stripped down further? Wouldn’t they be better again?

          • Ric Ricard

            I owned a Nikon J1 You can see a couple of brief mentions of it on my blog from 2014 here: https://johnricardblog.com/tag/nikon-j1/. Note, at that time I wrote, “It’s quiet and fast. Problems arise when you attempt to shoot manual or make exposure adjustments. The controls aren’t we’ll suited for that.” I would be willing to be that if I handed you a Nikon J1 and I put it in manual mode and I said, “change the aperture,” you couldn’t do it. I used to hand that camera to my friends who shoot Nikon professionally, and I would do just that. Honestly, not one Nikon user could figure out how to change the aperture. It uses a method of changing aperture that is unlike any method I have ever seen on a Nikon and I have owned the F4, F5, FM2, D100, D1x, D2x, D700, D3s, D3s, D810. …and yet I could not change the aperture on the Nikon J1. There is absolutely nothing stripped down about that camera.

            I’m so serious about what I am writing here that I will say the following. If you are NYC based, contact me. (Unless you chose to hide behind the fake username all the time). I will go with you to a camera store in NYC, and let’s go check out a J1 and see if it is easy or not to change the basic settings. Not being obnoxious or sarcastic here. I’m totally serious.

          • abortabort

            Sorry Ric, I know that you probably feel like it’s likely I am given that NYC and the USA are the centre of the known universe to you, but I’m about a 17 hour flight away.

            I have (very briefly) owned a J1, I don’t need you to walk me to a camera store to play with one (plus, discontinued).

            You seem to be missing the point entirely. What is fast and comfortable and intuitive for YOU makes it simple and paired down / stripped back for YOU. You can keep saying this or that isn’t or is, but what you are saying is ‘for me’.

            Then you simply keep moving the goal posts around to be what you consider to be stripped back, for you.

            I’m glad this camera is of interest to you, but don’t claim to know what is in the interests of everyone else based on your own ideas of what you prefer.

            So the M-D 262 is your next camera I presume, this M10 being way more complex than it needs to be?

          • Ric Ricard

            I don’t think NYC is the center of the known universe, and thank you for your apology. I don’t claim to know what is in the interests of everyone. I do know that that a lot of pros carried a Nikon FM2 in their bag alongside their more fully featured F5s. And I do know a lot people were excited by the concept of the Nikon Df, which promised to take things back to a simple design. So it is my belief, that if Nikon or Canon or Fuji were to create ONE stripped down model there would be interest in that camera.

          • abortabort

            Seriously I think you should just replace the words ‘stripped down camera’ with ‘1950’s – 1970’s type camera’ your argument would be a lot more coherent. My point is that they aren’t the same thing. In fact they are massively different concepts. Older cameras aren’t simpler, they might seem like they are to a subset of us who think in a certain way or were trained in a certain way, but it doesn’t make it universally true.

            So please, stop saying ‘stripped down’ and just say what you really mean and say ‘Leica are the only ones convincingly making a camera that harks back to more traditional cameras’.

            On that I completely agree and is exactly why I shoot a Leica. I also have a Df and a Fujifilm X-T2, neither of which are a Leica. But I can just as easily shoot them in a similar fashion if I want to (rangefinder excepted, they are TTL cameras after all), they have more options, because they are more flexible, but for the functions that I use on my Leica (ie very limited) they are at least as easy to use if not easier.

          • Ric Ricard

            Here is an illustration of what I’m talking about where a camera is so complicated, that it fails at doing it’s most basic job -taking photos. I shot this video clip totally spontaneously when my friends Stephen was attempting to use my Sony a6000 last month. A “display” indication came on the screen and although he fiddled with the camera for around 60 seconds, he could not get it off, https://youtu.be/MDpE0hTyeSM

          • abortabort

            Sorry Ric, your video doesn’t really show anything.

            I could shoot a video of my photographer friends trying to figure out my M-E, they can’t. Believe it or not, cameras are complex tools (they aren’t lightbulbs), they require some learning. End of story.

            I teach photography and film to young people with mental health issues, they have no problems figuring out how to take (often very nice) images with my pretty wide assortment of cameras. I would never hand them my M, because they would be totally and utterly lost.

          • Ric Ricard

            I am certain that the video doesn’t ‘really show anything” to you. Your world view appears to be that current cameras have a great design and it they don’t need to add anything to their current offerings. I think otherwise.

          • abortabort

            *sigh* Actually your video doesn’t show anything, because it literally doesn’t show anything, apart from that maybe making videos to convey information isn’t your strongest suit.

            Besides I never claimed that nor would I ever try to claim that, THAT would be a very bold claim that I could never substantiate. A little bit like your claim, that you have failed to substantiate other than by repeating yourself and using some badly thought through analogies.

            The J1 for example is so stripped back that you can barely control the camera, that’s stripped back whether you happen to prefer it or not.

          • Ric Ricard

            I’ve made a lot of instructional videos on You Tube and my videos tend to get to the point very quickly. No long intros, no necessary explanations. I honestly wish more people would put out as much information in their videos as quickly as I do in mine. Here is one example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NaBqa6KgFQ The video is 2 and one half minutes long and gives a lot of information during that short time. Sometimes I try to watch instructional videos on You Tube, and there is so much time wasted with introductions and unnecessary explanations, that I’m forced to bail. I filmed that video in the middle of a shoot and it was totally off the cuff. It’s a great example of how good I am at making videos to convey information. And that video is 5 years old. I’m actually better at it now.

          • abortabort

            You say a lot in 2:30, that doesn’t mean the information is clear or well defined. Your video could have cut back to the photo/s in question with examples of what you are talking about with the face / hair / background while you are talking to illustrate the things you are saying. As it is the audience has to take your word for it OR go back to the start to look at the photo, as captured on a handicam off a reflective screen at an angle.

            Whether a video is drawn out or not with long intros etc really depends on your audience and what they want / their expectations are, you didn’t mention who your audience is, have you actually thought about it yourself? Obviously you are not the audience for those other videos, which is probably why you end up skipping them.

            I think your video is aimed at you, so you think it is great and a great example of how great you are. I think it’s a poor video of what would probably otherwise be a pretty good explanation of what you are achieving and how you’re going about it. You also manage to cover a little bit of ‘why’ you make these decisions earlier on, but in a race to the finish to be over and out in as short a time as possible, this gets skipped at the end.

            So for me as an audience, I’m already out, I watched it for the sake of review, but you telling me to do something and not explaining why or even giving clear examples so I can decide for myself, lost me as an audience.

            This is not to say that you aren’t knowledgable on the topic you are talking about, it is purely about the presentation of information and using the medium of a video to do so.

            Going back to your friend on the A6000, all I hear is you saying ‘this is why I don’t like the Sony menus…’ and then your friend playing with the camera (no idea at all what with) and then he says something about being ‘longer than that’… End. Didn’t really tell me anything.

          • Ric Ricard

            The Sony video informed you that a photographer -who shoots with Fuji and Nikon systems, spent over 60 seconds trying to figure out how to make the “display” screen disappear from the Sony a6000 so he could take a picture….and even after having spent all of that time, he couldn’t make that screen disappear.

            Since you didn’t like my video, perhaps this one will be more to your liking. It’s a nice long 16 minutes. It also got way more views than my video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBZtw4_f9pM I bailed on it around the time they explained what microphone they were using to record the audio (?!?!?!) So maybe you can let me know if it ultimately gave more information about how to use the beauty dish than my 2 minute video did.

          • abortabort

            Sorry John, not watching that (it sounds boring as bat sh!t). I take it you don’t take feedback well… So I won’t continue, but please don’t try to tell me what ‘I’ got out of a video, I think if you are making videos that is a huge, huge mistake. If your target audience doesn’t get what you intend, it’s a failure on your part.

          • Ric Ricard

            I am great at taking feedback. That is why I don’t delete any negative comments on my You Tube videos. I respond to to them just as I am responding to you now. My target audience loves my videos. They love the fact that I always get right to the point and that I talk in a normal speaking voice. Many You Tubers talk very slowly for no reason. My videos have been a tremendous success over the years and I often get requests to make more of them. There is so much instructional content on You Tube however, that I tend to not do too many instructional any more, and I’ve long since deleted my earlier instructional videos. Instead, I put up my podcast several times per month. Doesn’t get as many views as I’d like, but the few people who do listen to it, seem to really appreciate it.

            I don’t expect you to fully understand what I am saying here, because you are hiding behind a fake name. You’d have to use your real name as I do, and stand behind your posts/videos, etc in order to really appreciate what people like me do on You Tube or on forums.

          • abortabort

            Look, I’m glad for you that you are happy with your videos. But I had another watch of your A6000 video you posted and the information I was supposedly ‘meant’ to attain and did are poles apart. In the video I have no idea who this guy is, what his background is, or what he is trying to do. I simply have your claim and that is basically it.

            FWIW though, the information you are claiming in the video is actually wrong and intentionally misleading.

            I won’t make further comment about improvements to your videos as it’s getting way off topic, but that video did nothing to prove that there are no ‘stripped back’ cameras.

          • I agree, Sony has the worst menu system I have ever seen.

          • abortabort

            You hate Sony, so of course you would think that. Personally I think Nikon does, absolutely atrocious.

            Also John’s video of the guy trying to ‘get out of the menu’ is not a menu at all, it’s an information screen, very similar to the one on my Df, or 5DS, or X-T2. Is it really a ‘Sony issue’ that some random dude couldn’t figure this out because it isn’t behaving like a smartphone?

          • Yes, and there are several reason why I hate Sony – the menu being one of them.

          • abortabort

            You had a RX1 right? Menus are an ingrained thing, I think only fanboys really complain about menus.

          • Yes, and I have said many times that I liked that camera. Not really fanboy stuff because for example I like everything Fuji is doing. I hated the M 240 and have been plenty of critical of Nikon.

        • Bo Dez

          You can shoot any camera in stripped down mode. Just use manual. Any decent photographer can do this and not think of the camera and It doesn’t take too much brain power to ignore other features…You sound like an old person who still has to print out email to read them. If you want stripped back experience go learn large format.

      • DouglasGottlieb

        I love my Ricoh GR and have several external battery chargers for it. It is a fantastic, pocketable powerhouse. And I consider it mostly simple to set up and use (manual focus excepted, but zone focus is fine), I would call it stripped down only in terms of the minimalist industrial design (love it) and the minimalist menu design and structure. But there are a lot of features and settings and customization options. I like having it here. But doesn’t seem to fit the “stripped down” description.

        I might actual enjoy it more than I already do if it did less

    • starsailor

      What’s sadly missing is in-camera charging through USB-C. It’s understandable that Leica don’t want unnecessary openings in the camera housing, but the need to always carry and use a flimsy plastic charger for an expensive device that otherwise uses quality, durable materials is unfitting.

      • CHD

        Total non-issue from my perspective. I never go though more then one battery in a day,. and even if I did I would carry a second battery.

        • andre_

          I agree with starsailor, and I’m waiting for the USB charger in Europe…

          The USB charger is extremely useful when traveling. I find myself charging several device at once with a multi-USB every night (my smartphone, my wife’s, a compact camera, the Sony A7 – I’m happy with the charger! – and maybe a Kindle). Only the battery for the Leica needs another charger (although not every day, I agree with you).
          I’d like a Micro-USB on camera, just to use every now and then.

        • starsailor

          Bag space is premium when traveling, and also the plastic charger is just a bad user experience. If they made an aluminum or brass charger at least it would be nice to handle, but plastic is just unnecessary landfill waste.

      • DouglasGottlieb

        I love being able to charge extra batteries while still using the camera. Some of my systems really drain fast and I have two or three chargers. But no reason not to have both for those who like it. The port could go near the battery and card slot(s?) so as not to require an opening elsewhere.

        That said, I have a little SONY that cheaped out an excluded the external piece and it bugs me

        • starsailor

          I’m with you until the tired Sony bit. A charger should definetely be a separate optional accessory, some users like myself would never touch it and object to paying for it just to purchase a camera. A different example would be the iPhone 7 including a phone connector adapter, many user haven’t used that connector in ages, why should they be forced to pay for that plastic waste, and pay again to recycle it. Yes, some cities charge you for landfill waste disposal, and justifiably so.

          • DouglasGottlieb

            There are probably different expectations in different territories to consider. I don’t know how to tell how much the cost of the charger impacts the overall price of the item, but clearly, there are lots opinions on both sides. 🙂 I’d be annoyed at paying hundreds or thousands of dollars and not getting a separate charger in the box. But agree to disagree on that point. Agree that the landfill is a bad place for it but disagree that most, if any would go there. Worth keeping, even if only for occasional use. And if well made and Leica branded, it would bring trade value or a welcome gift. I’d happily pay your postage and handling costs if you’d like to send me your Leica charger and save it from the landfill. 😉

          • starsailor

            I see where you’re coming from, but my point is, if it’s an unessential accessory and inexpensive, why conplain about the extra purchase, if it’s unessential and expensive, why force everyone to pay for it? There seems no upside to including the charger except some customers sense of entitlement. And along that line of thought, let’s ask Leica to ship all Ms with a free 50 APO Summicron.

          • DouglasGottlieb

            I fully appreciate that it is seen as unessential by many. But it is also seen as essential to many. 🙂 I’ll leave it to regional marketing and their analytics team to sort out what to do. Either way, I really like what I’m seeing on the rumored specs. The Q and SL sensor is excellent. A bigger viewfinder would be great. I’m spoiled by an M3 and gladly “suffer” a CL because of the delightful size and weight. I would not miss video too much. But would probably prefer to have it than not. Thinner? Great! Fewer buttons? Great! Drives the prices of used M9 and M240s down a bit? Great!

        • From my experience (compared to fuji, sony, and canon) The Leica camera battery is pretty long. Pretty close to a Canon 5Dmk3. Sony drains very fast but it’s only because of the EVF same for fuji.

          Design wise, adding a port would only add more bulk, more cost to pay license rights to USB company, cannibalized extra battery sales, more fault/point of failure “bad USB” (happened to my sony and casio a few times) and more cables for end users to carry.

          I believe Leica’s audience is to force you to be more simple. Almost like Apple, – Apple has the tendencies to do things you dont like but will adapt for the better.

          But ya, I cannot see why I would dual charge a Leica at least for my type of shooting. I can only see that use for taht if I was shooting for weddings but there are better solutions/camera for weddings. (Canon/Nikons) Cameras should be seen as tools in your box. A hammer cant solve all issues 😛 they’re job specific.

          • DouglasGottlieb

            Agreed. Like Apple, there’s an uncompromising point of view that either resonates with one or doesn’t. People here are likely on the same wavelength, but we do like our nits. And why not? 🙂

            But if forced to chose between USB or a dedicated external battery charger (even the world’s ugliest and most plastic one) I’d choose the external charger every time. The biggest ones are no bigger than a deck of cards and weigh less than I can notice. I’ll find a way to carry or pack it. I’m not climbing Everest.

    • I think of my Q as in the same vein, although I’m sure many of you would still think of it as too complex. Still, you have really straightforward setting of aperture, shutter speed and exposure compensation.

      Everyone who sees my Leica Q falls in love with it. I tell them it’s the perfect beginner’s camera because it’s so simple to put into practice everything you learn in photo classes.

      Then I tell them the price (actually I ask them to guess it first) and they faint dead away.

      I love to have them guess it because a ton of them think it’s $300! Average guesses are about $1,000. Actual price is $4,250. LOL.

    • Bo Dez

      Alpa, Linhof, Hasselblad CFV, Cambo, Horseman. Every full featured dSLR has manual mode and any decent photographer can use these and forget the rest. Just concentrate on your photos and you forget the camera.

      • Ric Ricard

        I use a Nikon D810 for the majority of my professional work. I have no problem with the design of the camera. There is literally not a single thing I would change about the controls of the camera. However, I would also like Nikon to produce a stripped down camera with just a few buttons. I enjoy using the stripped down tool for a lot of my work. I’m glad Leica offers such a tool, and I don’t understand why Fuji, Nikon, Canon refuse to do so.

        • Bo Dez

          I don’t know why these manufacturers haven’t jumped in either. Nikon tried, a little, with the DF, but yet the 810 and 5 is what people are buying so that particular user defines the market I guess. I do agree though – After you’ve used a camera that is stripped back you realise how you don’t need anything else and most other things are gimmicks. Sadly, most things in the commerce side of photography, gear etc, became marketing, these mega companies need to shift units so they invent shit we don’t really need and market it in a way that makes people want it. But need it is another thing and I and inclined to think that all that automation is what has shaped photography and not in the best way. IMO, of corse.

          • Ric Ricard

            It is also worth noting, that in many fields, a professional tool is in fact a very limited device. As a consumer/amateur if you go to the drugstore to buy a razor to shave your head, you get an all purpose razor that cuts your hair and your beard and your sideburns. Your professional barber uses 3 different razors, each one good at only that specific task. As an amateur you buy a screwdriver that has removable heads, but when you hire a craftsman to come to your house, his screwdriver has only one head permanently attached. An amateur bicycle has multiple speeds and 2 brakes and lights and shock absorbers. And yet the NYC messengers are fond of Fixed Gear bikes that have no gears, no lights and NO BRAKES.

            The only point I’ve made in my multiple posts on this forum, as that every camera company should offer at least one model that is stripped of features. I’m glad Leica does it. I really don’t understand how a company like Sony can make an a6000, a63000 and a6500 that are all essentially the same camera, but they refuse to make just one model that is dramatically different.

          • Bo Dez

            Cameras can only be made for groups of people, yet individuals of corse have different preferences. I work with lots of cameras, It’s more based on lenses I like, but I would prefer it to be less systems and it’s not a case of not being able to. I have been a very long time user of Leica but I find them frustrating. Exceptional in some ways, limiting in others. I don’t find other systems I use so limiting.

            Sony is a strange company but they have the resources and funds to really throw out lots of options and then build on what ever is most popular. I don’t ever a Sony user having much interest in a stripped back camera.

  • Need money for an M

    Normal sized red dot is back!

  • ZMWT

    Can somebody honestly answer: what is the point delivering a new M camera that actually does nothing to better the already established M240 or the Q or M-D or whatever else variation on the M?

    Or let me rephrase it: what is the real purpose of the new M10? What problem it solves that tens of M variations did not already deliver?

    I fail to understand this camera: its only benefit seems to be its slimness, but which is faux-slimness anyway (raised LCD and raised mount to compensate thinning of the body), so what else makes it more worthwhile that a Leica company did not already deliver in some digital M model?

    Could not this be achieved in M-D and M10 made into something completely else? Leica’s M “strategy” totally confuses me. Do they have strategy at all or are just milking the M-cow in all possible ways?

    • abortabort

      Let me ask, what did you expect it to deliver?

      • ZMWT

        To have all features of the M240, plus a Q-like EVF integrated and more speed What do you think about that, would that not be nice and deserving of a new M model?!

    • Less will Cost more. The purpose is to maintain the value of their product line without killing it. They can get away with it is because their brand/product are not rich with features nor do they really compete with each other.

      If you want AF, get a Q, if you want video with AF get a SL, if you want film digital get a M-D or real film a MA. You get the idea now.

      Therefore, I can only imagine this M10 will be the same thing. It will serve a specific purpose and a new tool in your bag for a type of shooting style/job.

      I honestly, wouldnt be surprised if it was a CCD and that it’s job is not meant for lowlight like a CMOS. I could totally see that.

      So it can be target for, if you dont shoot at night or low light but WANT high sharp images here is the new Maestro CCD.

      But what do I know LOL
      https://www.instagram.com/superbvisual/

      • lobotomisedjournalist

        I am sure you are right – it is just model positioning. Screw the buyer, just give them hard either or choices.

    • Ric Ricard

      There is plenty “wrong” with the M240 that could be fixed with an M10 so creating an M10 makes perfect sense. First, with the M9 and M240 there is an overall sluggishness. You push a button and wait for a split second (which feels like an eternity) before the camera responds. When you turn on an M240, you have to wait several seconds before you can take a picture. If you use an EVF on the M240, the finder blacks out between shots. The buffer is terrible on both cameras and you’ll hit it frequently. The high ISO performance of the M9 and M240 is not as good as a 8 year old Nikon. Auto WB is inconsistent on both cameras and if you shoot 10 images in a row, you’ll get varying color from shot to shot. Skin tones on both cameras are often too magenta no matter what WB you set.

      So yes, maybe Leica could have tweaked an M240 to fix these problems. But how would that be more desirable than just creating the new model from the ground up? What advantage would I gain from a tweaked M240 over a newly designed M10? And, if they were able to make the M10 thinner, that will be another major reason to create an M10 rather than tweaking the M240.

      • Gustavo

        Ultra interesting words… Great opinion!

      • ZMWT

        As you stated, Leica could respond to problems of responsiveness and software speed in ANY current M version. So I am not buying the explanation that the ‘brand new’ M10 was needed to address obvious flaws of deliberately flawed models based on M240. The guilt on Leica’s part is thus even bigger, for literally betraying all M users thus far, by offering them inferior interior in endless the variation of the same.

        • Les

          ZMWT,

          One of the problems addressed is that many people found the M(240) too big.
          The rumored M10 has a new body and a new or updated sensor. Isn’t that enough to call it a new camera?

          If you want to complain about milking, you should venture over to the Nikon side. Their new mid-range model is not functionally different from the model it replaced.

          • ZMWT

            I never stated that other companies are honest. In threads before, I openly stated Fujifilm does the similar disgraceful strategy, of issuing endless X-system models that are good for nothing.
            But in this thread, the focus is on Leica and no, I don’t think they behave honestly at all. Leica was never like this before, it all started with the digital M9, when they became followers of confusing strategies. M nomenclature itself proves it.

          • Refurb7

            X system models “that are good for nothing”? Again, your comments are way out of line with reality. Totally disconnect from reality.

          • “it all started with the digital M9, when they became followers of confusing strategies”

            Wha? lol please further elaborate. I do not see this at all.

            I mean, where would you want them to go ? What’s confusing ?

        • maralatho

          Most of your comments are hasty conclusions derived from what seems to be resentment. What is your gripe exactly? Do you even own an M? I’ve owned several, I’ve never felt ripped off, and I’ve only felt just enough dissatisfaction to look forward to the next model.

          • I feel the SAME way. For awhile, I felt the M240 was almost a rip off and sold it to go back to canons and nikon.

            However, it wasnt the same. The Leica IQ and the optics cannot be compared. Still, I was not convinced and got a Fuji xpro2. Then, I really really hated myself and went back to the Leica. I got the Leica Q and the Leica M-D.

            Photography has changed for me and the money was soooooo worth it. All the features I thought I need to make me a better shooter was not needed they’re just distractions honestly.

        • Refurb7

          Your comments are way out of line with reality. Gripe, gripe, gripe. Enjoy your day in Gripeville.

      • lobotomisedjournalist

        Well, if they tweaked the M240 with firmware, you would save a lot of money. They could/should fix the white balance, magenta problem, slow start up, and length of black out with a FREE firmware update, even the high iso noise level could be improved, but, of course, that would not fit with Leica’s gouging business model. Enjoy your new, but minimally changed, and very expensive M10.

        • High iso noise? You need a different sensor. Or a stronger noise reduction applied, and in this last case it would be pretty useless: you can add it in post.

          • lobotomisedjournalist

            Not completely true. A certain amount of noise is dependent on the algorithms used to translate the light into the raw file. These can be updated with new firmware.

        • Ric Ricard

          If the M10 gives me better high ISO performance than the M9 and M240, and if it eliminates the overall sluggishness of the previous models and if there are no buffer issues, I will absolutely enjoy using my “minimally changed, and very expensive M10”. I expect to carry it with me most days when I am walking around. I also expect that it will be incorporated into every single one of my paid photography jobs -even those where the bulk of the job is captured on the Nikon D810. And, if the past 4 years are anything to go by, my favorite images, as well as the most important images to me (the family portraits) will consistently be taken with my Leica and not my Nikon.

        • ZMWT

          For what you wish for, you need Sony’s 24 MP FF sensors, but which are not available to Leica. Leica has no purchasing power to procure them, has no production demand, so it outsources FF sensors from other vendors, which are not best in town, but do the job.

      • CHD

        The point is….that after 4 years we should have more improvements over the M240 then what is rumored above. A marginally better sensor and an ISO dial don’t take 4 years to develop…at least they shouldn’t.

        • Ric Ricard

          Well said. I guess for me, I love the M240 and I just want them to fix what’s wrong with it. If I were really trying to think of improvements I’d want, then I’d want M6 size, a killer movie mode and an hybrid EVF and Rangefinder.

          • CHD

            I think Leica should have waited till they had a killer hybrid EVF before releasing the M10….THAT would have been worth upgrading for…at least to me. Things like increased RAM etc to speed things up are easy and should be a given. As for movie mode I don’t personally want it but understand others do.

          • ZMWT

            CHD, exactly! A killer Q-like EVF, and a movie mode, C, S, ST — why on earth not have those inside this M10 body?
            So they have designed an all new body to further frustrate M users who would love this new form factor, but excluded features that are inside other M cameras and which many M users are accustomed to and would like to have. It is incomprehensible.

        • ZMWT

          Yes, I agree. I fail to understand that so many years went in making the M10 as it is above. The Q, on the other hand, and judging by the same rule, would take 12-16 years to develop! Because the Q is just absolutely brilliant digital camera concept.

          • Timothy Rule

            I think you have to consider that the M240 was a camera platform, and that over those 4 years many variants were released. And now comes the first edition of the new platform.

            With an iconic design like this, there is not much that can be done. The innovative new functionality is pushed to the SL.

            I would rather see more too, but then the only Leica camera which really interests me is the M-D … so perhaps I would rather see less? Otherwise the M is an iconic design, nice, but not particularly relevant anymore. There is just a lot of other options, both from Leica and from their competitors.

          • My buddy designed the Q He will be thrilled to hear this : ) He thinks the Q is not getting enough love. My only complaint about is it needs to be weathered sealed but I know that’s what the U-X is for LOL, dam you Leica.

            Oh and there is a reason for the amount of RnD too.

          • Tell your buddy to design a 40mm or 50mm Summilux Q version 🙂

          • I’m not sure if he’s joking but it sounds about right. He said maybe in 15 years LOLOL

          • But he definitely said that is not the last Q we will see.

          • I am sure they will, it was a big success for them.

      • DouglasGottlieb

        Seriously. The EVF experience is laughable. The lag after shooting is excruciating. And it _could_ be a useful accessory for shooting wide angle or very shallow DoF.

    • eric

      my guess is leica is in the process of sorting out its digital cameras and bringing them in line with each other. the m10 isnt a huge upgrade but it may start a trend toward improving the m line with each iteration. i think someone else mentioned they were going away from the -typ labeling.

      i think also the quality of todays cameras make huge changes more difficult. if you look at any brand there all pushing the limit for whats possible, image quality wise. so a lot more attention is being paid to the look of the product than what it can do, besides smalll incremental changes.

      • lobotomisedjournalist

        Er… I think using a far higher mp would have been a very easy and obvious way to make a huge change. Incorporating a hybrid EVF would also have done the trick. Do both and you have something almost revolutionary!

        • CHD

          36MP with improved DR and ISO performance and a hybrid EVF…maybe toss in 16bit files for good measure.

          THIS is what Leica needs to justify the $7000-$8000 they are going to ask for an M10 if they want to stay relevant.

          • Refurb7

            No, none of that would make it “relevant”. You totally miss the point of this camera. No one buys a Leica M based on specs or an EVF or anything like that.

          • CHD

            Dude, how do you know ‘why people buy an M’. I bought an M for one reason only…it is the best performer with M glass. I could give two $hits about the rangefinder experience. The other thing I wanted was the fit and finish…and this is also where Leica excels.

            If you want to be stuck in the past then go buy your self an M9 or better yet an M3.

          • Refurb7

            So actually you don’t disagree with me. Your choice is based on the lenses, which makes sense. Because if you bought based on specs, you wouldn’t buy a Leica at all. Instead, you would look for 36 or 50mp, Highest ISO and DR, best EVF, fastest frame rate, etc., — the things that are usually measured by specs.

          • CHD

            Dude you’re clueless. Tell me how build quality is measured by ‘specs’. As for the lenses, I want the best quality possible in the smallest package….whether it’s Leica or Zeiss most rangefinder glass fits that description. As for high ISO, I could care less….90% of the time I shoot at iso800 or better.

    • starsailor

      The 240 lacks built-in wireless connectivity which is indispensable for a modern work path, otherwise the M10 indeed seems like a minor upgrade. The raised mount and display to simulate a thinner body are petty and deceptive. The lack of in camera charging and need for a separate impractical plastic charger also significantly cheapens the experience, especially for such an expensive product.

      • CHD

        Are WiFi enabled SD cards a solution for those who need the feature?? Honestly I have no idea which is why I ask…

        • starsailor

          Have you checked how well these SD cards work and what cumbersome setup procedures they require? Most manufacturers have stopped making them, it’s simply an inefficient solution.

    • Charles

      It’s OK not to understand the M10 yet: it hasn’t even been announced, let alone reviewed.
      Save the vitriol until we know what the camera is, what it can do, and what it can’t.

      • Refurb7

        No, no, no. Some people are over-full of vitriol and feel like they will burst if they don’t let it pour.

        • Bo Dez

          Sometimes the vitriol is coming from the fan boys.

      • CHD

        Give him a break….I completely understand where he’s coming from. Much of the ‘angst’ is because it’s been 4 yrs since the M240 was released and the rumored specs are not much of an improvement over what we already have.

        This combined with the fact it will likely be ANOTHER 3-4 years before the M10 is replaced means that it’s basically a 7-8 year wait for those of us upgrading from an M240 who expect more from $8000 then what an M10 represents.

        • Charles

          Give him a break for bagging a camera that hasn’t even been announced?

          • CHD

            What difference does it make whether or not it’s been announced?!? 90%-100% of the specs listed above are going to be true….it’s the way it always is mere weeks before a product release. It’s leaked info…

            You Leica guys should expect more then this for $8000. For that money you can buy a brand new, medium format Fuji with a lens….and a far superior sensor. I don’t mind paying a premium for Leica products, but I expect more improvements then what we see here after 4 years!

          • Charles

            A camera is not just a list of specs, and no one outside of the Leica distribution chain has full knowledge of this camera.
            If you think the rumours indicate a below-par camera, that’s fine. If you’re after a system that is substantially different to what the M offers, that’s fine too.
            Please just don’t pretend to full knowledge about the M10.
            We’ll all understand this camera soon enough, once it’s out in the wild and people actually get to use it for making photographs.
            Until then, it is a bit premature to tear it down.
            All the best.

          • CHD

            I’m well aware a camera is ‘not just a list of specs’. If it were, I would never have bought my M240. However, if you think you’re going to see an M10 in a week’s time that is substantially different then what is listed above….then you are mistaken.

            Anyway…even though I’ll never buy one I hope it is a success as ultimately it will help keep Leica viable.

          • Charles

            Sure.
            We’ll all have a lot more to discuss after 18 January.

        • Bo Dez

          It’s even longer for those that bought the M9 and found no real compelling reason to upgrade to the 240!

          • Ricardo Villagran Vicent

            Or even longer to those who own the M8 (like myself). The only “upgrade” for me would be a new M with CCD sensor which obviously will never happen. So I keep saving for a cheap M9.

    • Responsiveness of Q puts the M240 to shame, just to say. But the M line is a rangefinder, while the Q is “just” a compact camera (with a great evf and framelines in crop mode, but still not a rangefinder).
      M lovers (rangefinder lovers) now will have a faster camera, with interchangeable lenses, better ISO performances and no video.
      I for instance don’t care about video at all.
      I would have preferred an hybrid o/evf, but still I welcome this M10 and would like to use it.
      In the meanwhile I use my rangefinder film camera. And my Q.

      • lobotomisedjournalist

        The fact that the M is a rangefinder makes it easier to make it even more responsive than the Q, since there is no need to autofocus. The problem was that Leica used a bottom-of-the -line chip in the M cameras, and then sold it at a premium. Genius.

        • I don’t know if at the time there were better chips to use. For sure the Maestro2 is a big improvement over any previous Leica.

          • lobotomisedjournalist

            The contemporary FF dslrs all had chips multiples better/faster than that in the M240.

          • CHD

            Well you could say that about the LCD screen too….or the sensor….or the amount of RAM….or…..

          • While I agree on that, I’m also aware that the using a rangefinder has a different approach.
            No AF means you learn to pre-focus and therefore pre-visualize the scene. Quite apple and oranges.
            The main issue is the start up times, not the buffer or the slower burst of continuous shoots: bursting pictures with a rangefinder sounds like a heresy, at least to me.
            The other big issue is the lag between the action of pressing the shutter and the camera taking the photo.
            And that should be fixed.

      • Charles

        Apart from the “same EVF as TL” rumour, there is not yet any information to exclude a hybrid OVF-EVF-optoelectronic viewfinder.

    • maralatho

      There would be no point in delivering a new M that did nothing better than the 240. Hence, the M10.

    • CHD

      I agree with you 1000%.

    • Chito

      Gotta be honest, the M240 is a flawed camera. If the M10 functions bug free then that in itself would be a massive improvement. The 240 is just not a “reliable” camera.

      There is one HW problem that definitely needs to be fixed, the slight shutter vibraton that is noticeable at slow-ish shutter speeds.

      • CHD

        Bug free??? My M240 has worked flawlessly for 2 years….what version of FW are you running???

        • Chito

          The latest.. I checked, since I have to send it to Wetzlar now that it locks up everytime I try to take a photo (or put it into live view). I actually wish I could downgrade just to see if it fixes the problem.

          My M240 used to lock up just occasionally.

          It’s probably a HW failure though.. shutter.

          • Have you brought it in to service ?

          • Chito

            I reside un a country without Leica service. I consulted with my Leica dealer and since I have to send it abroad anyways might as well send it to Germany.

          • The great thing when you send it back to Germany even tho it will take 4 months round trip is my experience. They CLA service it and kindly clean up the camera and fixed my covers that was dented. It was pretty awesome like a new camera. They also make sure the RF is aligned too. I highly recommend sending it in. If you can afford to be cameraless. :(( I know I was missing my baby!

          • Chito

            wow 4 months? At least the service itself sounds great, glad to hear of that experience.

            I’ll miss the camera, but I do have a backup Canon so it won’t be that bad.

          • CHD

            Yeah, like I say mine works perfectly with the latest FW, if yours doesn’t I would try reloading the FW and see if that improves things.

          • Chito

            I didn’t think of reloading the FW since it worked fine for months with it… I’ll give it a shot, though, thanks.

          • Chito

            I’m on 2.0.3.0, tried to reload FW (I won’t, it’ll just say update done immediately).

            So…. well I’m sending it in this week. It was worth a shot though.

    • Ricardo Villagran Vicent

      I don’t see its reason too, I guess because they need to deliver a new model every X years. Good for those who want an older model.

  • abortabort

    ‘Bigger screen’… surround.

    The screen looks so much like a seperate part, it almost looks detachable (now that would be cool!).

    • DouglasGottlieb

      I’ll take one with a detachable screen, please. And make it optional, and priced less than a version with the screen bundled.

      • abortabort

        Well can’t see it being optional, but yeah, that would be nice. Actually I’d take a M-D if they had left the option to use the optional EVF, for things like formatting memory cards and the like.

  • I just lost a bid for a 240 M-P. It was going for a ridiculous price for Japan, which tends to be expensive. Glad I did. I sweated that night. Gilbert at Fotopia says he doesn’t know when the M10 will be in stock.

    I’m game this time, for sure.

    • LOL. oh man I’ve been there before. congrats on the loss 😛

  • Bo Dez

    if these specs are right I have no interest in this what so ever.

    • Brennan McKissick

      Sorry it doesn’t meet your standards. I’m sure the Leica team will ask for your input next time.

      • cnick6

        Oh so you’re a Leica technical advisor Mister Snobby? ;op

      • Bo Dez

        You seem incapable of allowing other people to have their own opinions without taking it personally, getting upset and snarky.

    • Refurb7

      That’s really fantastic.

    • Chito

      Unless.. I can get a good price for my M240.. If the M10 has good reviews and it’ll “only” cost me a 1-2 thousand bucks to upgrade then maybe.. why not?

    • DouglasGottlieb

      What would it need to do different to pique your interest?

  • Kevin

    This looks amazing. I have an M-P 240 and i welcome the removal of the movie button. I honestly have never used it. The ISO dial is nice but i hope they make it firm enough that it does not turn if it is brushed up against something. The thing I am really hoping for is LV without a delay (Blackout). Thats the only thing that bothers me about shooting with the EVF-2. Of course a hybrid VF would be nice but for me it is not a deal breaker. WIFI would be nice but not a deal breaker. The whole reason I got an M was to slow down and appreciate photography for what it is.

  • lobotomisedjournalist

    The rear screen sticking out like it seems to seems a bizarre decision. It means the ‘thinness’ is only in the grip, not the camera, it will be an uncomfortable protrusion, and it looks cheap and nasty.

    • Refurb7

      You’re imagining things. It sticks out very slightly. Just like on the M9 and M240.

  • thanks for the breakdown.

    Still not certain or confused on some of the points.

    Have some things I like, also.

    QUESTIONS:

    – “Dedicated ISO wheel/dial on top plate: the dial for the ISO on the top plate has the settings A – M and then goes from 100 to 6,400”

    I know A should be for Automatic, but what is M for? Manual? Isn’t it already in manual ISO when you start using 100-6400?

    – “Next to the display on the left are only 3 buttons: LV, Play and Menu as well as 2 LEDs (this is probably done to fit the larger LCD screen), ”

    Regarding the 2 LED’s, what do you mean “this is probably done to fit the larger LCD screen”? Not sure what the 2 LED’s have to do with the larger LCD screen?

    – “Raised M mount to accommodate the rumored thinner body (3.8mm thinner)”

    I suppose it looks thicker or higher than previous M240..could make sense if this is what will make the m10 body thinner.. I suppose the difference will be there, all be it probably fairly negligible. Still, I definitely welcome a thinner body.

    GOOD THINGS, IMHO:

    – 24MP sensor (the sensor from the Leica SL/Q)
    I think 24mp is plenty.

    – Max ISO: 50k (just like the Leica SL and the Leica Q)
    Great, having a lower base ISO is also very good.

    – Slightly bigger LCD screen
    Don’t mind larger screen to see menu and review images when necessary.

    -Same EVF from the TL camera
    It’s probably not the best EVF by today’s standards, but still good to have when you need it for wide-ultrawide angle lenses that can’t be properly viewed through VF.

    – The new M10 should be 3.8mm thinner than the M 240 (should be as thin as analog Leica M camera)
    If it really is as thin as analog Leica M camera, good. Will still accept this M10 even if it wasn’t as thin or no change from current m240 thickness.

    – Image processing engine MAESTRO II
    Can always use the fastest processing engine possible to keep things as smooth as possible

    – Up to 5 frames per sec
    Great, but I wouldn’t plan on shooting burst much with an M. Good to have, regardless.

    – Build-in Wi-Fi
    This is a modern standard and shouldn’t get in the way.. when you have the time to upload some of you favorite photos off the camera to your phone, this will be nice and handy feature.

    – Improved/simplified menu
    Who doesn’t want this always?

    – The Leica M10 will most likely use the same battery (BP-SCL2) as the M Typ 240
    It should be more than enough to power and maintain usage.

  • Need money for an M

    Am I counting wrong? The ISO dial go from A to M, and should ranges from 200 to 12800? Because Ms’ native ISO use to be 200, at least typ-240 is…

  • eric

    so is pricing around $7600 pre-tax? pretty cheap.

  • Klaus

    I am looking forward to the event – as leica the m10 performs – between all other models

  • Update: I was told the M10 will be 38mm thick (or thin) – I assume this includes the raised LCD screen and M mount

    • RRDiaz

      Wowsers. I just measured my M6. 37mm from lens flange to back of film dial. M9-P, 42mm from lens flange to back face of LCD.

      • So pretty much what I reported a while back – same thickness as a film camera.

        • DW

          The baseplate of my M3’s are 31mm in width. Should one measure a different part to make the comparison?

  • Bo Dez

    All this talk of perfect design….The M has been a perfect design since the M4, or for some, the M3. It’s nice, but if it really does have the sensor from the Q then it will be far too limiting for a professional camera, but will be useful as an additional tool. It’s so frustrating that the M be held back like this from something that could be far more useful in more circumstances for more people.

    • JJ

      But is is not the same sensor used in the SL? And everyone praise the SL when it comes to IQ. And the SL should be a fairly professional camera 😉

      • Bo Dez

        fairly professional and really professional are different things. IMO, it’s half the resolution it needs to be to be truly indispensable.

    • If only…. there was a professional leica…… I wonder… I think wait.. The SL ? 😀

  • stevieg

    Just a thought…no delete button.
    In playback mode, how does one delete an image?
    Will the LCD be touch-sensitive to enable this?

    • Ric Ricard

      I can’t be the only person who has never found it necessary to delete an image in the field.

      • Yep, all photos have the potential to be given a chance 🙂

    • I have not heard anything about touch screen, but I think it is a possibility. Maybe some of the 3 buttons will turn into “delete” once in playback mode? Not sure.

    • You’ll probably be holding down a button to delete or a selection perhaps. That’s my guess.

  • eric

    so with the m10 coming out in january, can we expect to see a new Q this year? or any other camera from leica? or is this it.

    • I don’t think so, I believe the Q is two years away (4 years lifecycle).

      • eric

        wow, ok thanks for the reply. much appreciated 🙂

        • very welcome, I still believe Leica will update their X line this year but I am still not sure how and what exactly

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